password protection PLEASE!!!!

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chango de naranjito
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password protection PLEASE!!!!

Post by chango de naranjito »

I have a few problems with a few people stealing my setups, it can be done?
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Re: password protection PLEASE!!!!

Post by kjones6039 »

There any number of ways, available in Windows and other programs, to protect your files. You can even encrypt them if you like. IMO, a lot easier than making it part of the software.

Just my thoughts of course...........

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ryniobl
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Re: password protection PLEASE!!!!

Post by ryniobl »

chango de naranjito wrote:I have a few problems with a few people stealing my setups, it can be done?
Are they stealing it from cars of from laptop?
Reverant
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Re: password protection PLEASE!!!!

Post by Reverant »

I think he is saying that people download the MSQ from ECUs he has tuned, and then share the MSQ.
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Re: password protection PLEASE!!!!

Post by HidRo »

Doesn't that happen in all ECU's around?
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BenGTT
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Re: password protection PLEASE!!!!

Post by BenGTT »

I guess they are "stealing" map from the ecu directly.

I have the same problem as a tuner so are the other PRO I work with. :cry:

It could be nice to have a "security system"
ryniobl
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Re: password protection PLEASE!!!!

Post by ryniobl »

BenGTT wrote:I guess they are "stealing" map from the ecu directly.

I have the same problem as a tuner so are the other PRO I work with. :cry:

It could be nice to have a "security system"
You can make a short between rx and tx.Not the perfect way but is better than nothing :)
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Re: password protection PLEASE!!!!

Post by James »

Ummmm, in my world if I pay someone to tune my car — I own that thing I just paid you for — that's what I'm paying for.

I am a designer by trade — someone pays me to design something — I don't own it after I hand it over — in fact the idea that I ever own it is foreign to me.

I am pretty sure this goes across almost all trades where you are using your expertise and someone is paying for it.
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jsmcortina
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Re: password protection PLEASE!!!!

Post by jsmcortina »

Who owns the work depends a lot on what is agreed. For example, when I do custom coding for someone I choose to retain the copyright on my work.

Whether a tune can be designated a "work of art" I really do not know, you would need to consult with copyright lawyers.

There have been two times where I've considered implementing password protection.
1. ECU was to be sold as a "black box" integrated within a product - sold as non-user serviceable.
2. ECU was again a "black box" and required to be non-modifiable to pass local legislation

Selling someone a Megasquirt and then locking them out of it does seem rather against the original purpose of the Megasquirt which was to ALLOW end user tuning.

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BenGTT
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Re: password protection PLEASE!!!!

Post by BenGTT »

I agree James. But are you working with rally drivers ?? I did work a lot with them, most of them are nice, but I would say 10% of them are always short on money and they are always looking a method to have money. When I was doing chiptuning for GrN Renault, you can't imagine how many times I found copys of my tune on e-bay for 30€ !!! And be sure, they didn't sold 10 of them..... I did find a solution for this using a protection system called "XAP Protec".

On standalone ecu, this can be a little more tricky. I was working with Sybele Challenger 4+ ecus that has this nice feature (the only one good feature!). Why I love this feature, because it protect ALL my work. It protect the tune to be copy but for high power end engine I am building (Clio Maxi for ex.) it also protect the engine from people wanted to "play" with the tune. Event if there is no real waranty for a race engine, imagine when an engine come back to me broken with melted pistons after the second race because the customer finished 2nd and he just only added a few degrees of advance :evil:

But I am lucky, it didn't happened a lot, and I have a good lawer and good connections with experts when this happened. If is is possible, I would pay for this feature !

Regards,

Ben
BenGTT
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Re: password protection PLEASE!!!!

Post by BenGTT »

ryniobl wrote:
BenGTT wrote:I guess they are "stealing" map from the ecu directly.

I have the same problem as a tuner so are the other PRO I work with. :cry:

It could be nice to have a "security system"
You can make a short between rx and tx.Not the perfect way but is better than nothing :)
Exactly, thats what I am doing actually. I am selling with or without the tuning cable. I am not using std cable since I I use megasquirt ecu's to build my own plug and play ecus. Ecu's are also sealed to avoid copying. It helps..
tpsretard2
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Re: password protection PLEASE!!!!

Post by tpsretard2 »

this is why i do not tune megasquirts for people anymore.
no password protection on the setup.

For me i do not care about the MAP it self.
but i have had people go poking around and then in turn damage the engine.
i was then left holding the cost of an engine rebuild. it only came out half way through a messy battle with the lawyers that he went into the computer and changed a few things.
chango de naranjito
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Re: password protection PLEASE!!!!

Post by chango de naranjito »

BenGTT wrote:
ryniobl wrote:
BenGTT wrote:I guess they are "stealing" map from the ecu directly.

I have the same problem as a tuner so are the other PRO I work with. :cry:

It could be nice to have a "security system"
You can make a short between rx and tx.Not the perfect way but is better than nothing :)
Exactly, thats what I am doing actually. I am selling with or without the tuning cable. I am not using std cable since I I use megasquirt ecu's to build my own plug and play ecus. Ecu's are also sealed to avoid copying. It helps..
That sounds good how do you remove the short? for tuning
chango de naranjito
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Re: password protection PLEASE!!!!

Post by chango de naranjito »

Reverant wrote:I think he is saying that people download the MSQ from ECUs he has tuned, and then share the MSQ.
exactly
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Re: password protection PLEASE!!!!

Post by jsmcortina »

chango de naranjito wrote:
Reverant wrote:I think he is saying that people download the MSQ from ECUs he has tuned, and then share the MSQ.
exactly
But there is a valid question on who owns that MSQ. Did the ECU owner pay you to create it? So who owns it, you or them?

If the ECU owner now owns the tune, then why should they be prevented from sharing it?

James
I can repair or upgrade Megasquirts in UK. http://www.jamesmurrayengineering.co.uk

My Success story: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 04&t=34277
MSEXTRA documentation at: http://www.msextra.com/doc/index.html
New users, please read the "Forum Help Page".
chango de naranjito
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Re: password protection PLEASE!!!!

Post by chango de naranjito »

Maybe if I change the signature in the ini they can not see the msq.But the problem is I dont know how to do it...
chango de naranjito
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Re: password protection PLEASE!!!!

Post by chango de naranjito »

jsmcortina wrote:
chango de naranjito wrote:
Reverant wrote:I think he is saying that people download the MSQ from ECUs he has tuned, and then share the MSQ.
exactly
But there is a valid question on who owns that MSQ. Did the ECU owner pay you to create it? So who owns it, you or them?

If the ECU owner now owns the tune, then why should they be prevented from sharing it?

James
when I tune ecus that have password protection I ask the owner if I can protect it and they always say yes,they always know before the password is set, is an agreement,its my intellectual property.
chango de naranjito
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Re: password protection PLEASE!!!!

Post by chango de naranjito »

The problem is they sell the msq saying they make it and is a copy and paste of mine...
James
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Re: password protection PLEASE!!!!

Post by James »

Surely one tune is very unlikely to work on another engine due to all the variables? It'll be close but if the person using the "stolen" MSQ really wants the best out of the engine they are going to have to go get it tuned themselves anyway?

I still don't understand why you cannot share a few tables that you have paid a tuner to create :)

The way I see it — you cannot make the MSQ without the customer — if you were selling MSQs created out of thin air or by some clever piece of software you wrote there might be something you could steal — then it would be intellectual property.
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chango de naranjito
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Re: password protection PLEASE!!!!

Post by chango de naranjito »

James wrote:Surely one tune is very unlikely to work on another engine due to all the variables? It'll be close but if the person using the "stolen" MSQ really wants the best out of the engine they are going to have to go get it tuned themselves anyway?

I still don't understand why you cannot share a few tables that you have paid a tuner to create :)

The way I see it — you cannot make the MSQ without the customer — if you were selling MSQs created out of thin air or by some clever piece of software you wrote there might be something you could steal — then it would be intellectual property.
I agree the tune dont work the same but at least it will start and run,and in the particular cases that happen to me the engine setups are identical and I dont fell happy when this happen,If it can not be done well, I just have to get used to it...
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