MS2/extra alpha 3.3.0b (2012/02/27)

This is a forum for discussing the development and testing of alpha MS2/Extra code. Documentation
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Re: MS2/extra alpha 3.3.0b (2012/02/27)

Postby jsmcortina » Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:25 pm

andyducati wrote:Hi all,

I have just uploaded this new firmware to my MSII and every time i power up the MS i get a Settings Configuration error.
The reported setting error is "INVALID MAP SAMPLING ANGLES. NEEDS TO BE LESS THAN 180 DEG FOR 4CYL OR 90DEG FOR V8"

What does this mean and where is the setting to change this.

It is in General Settings.
Also, that MSQ wasn't from this firmware.

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Re: MS2/extra alpha 3.3.0b (2012/02/27)

Postby nismoautoxr » Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:14 pm

What is a good starting point for map sampling angle on a 2.4 supercharged 4 cyl? i attached my current MSQ
Ricky-
1995 Nissan 240sx, LS1 v8 N/A 6speed trans
MS3&MS3X v.3.0 PCB
30lb/hr Hi-Z inj.,230/232 @.050 on 114LSA cam
sequential fuel and sequential spark
LS3/LSA card MAF sensor
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Re: MS2/extra alpha 3.3.0b (2012/02/27)

Postby piledriver » Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:47 pm

andyducati wrote:Hi all,

I have just uploaded this new firmware to my MSII and every time i power up the MS i get a Settings Configuration error.
The reported setting error is "INVALID MAP SAMPLING ANGLES. NEEDS TO BE LESS THAN 180 DEG FOR 4CYL OR 90DEG FOR V8"

Andy


General/lags. Try "average" instead, then remap.
If you want to use the normal/old code, I ran 5 degree sample time, going too long just gives you a poor average.
The new averaging code takes many more samples and averages them, worked out much better for me with a remap and some massaging.

Using the timed sampling, I got some HUGE MAP swings over the RPM range. (I adapted, but ...)
Basically I set it for best signal at idle/low RPM.
MS3 has a table so the angle can be changed over the RPM range, MS2 is a fixed angle.

I'd now set it to "average" and retune the VE table as needed.
Always doing things the hard way, MS2 sequential w/ v1.01 mainboard, LS2 coils. 80 mile/day commuter status.
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Re: MS2/extra alpha 3.3.0b (2012/02/27)

Postby nismoautoxr » Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:22 pm

will my VE maps need massive changes or just some minor tweaking? I set it to average but I also am at work and Id like to drive home without big surprises so if its not going to change a ton Ill leave it but if it will Ill go change it back. :lol:
Ricky-
1995 Nissan 240sx, LS1 v8 N/A 6speed trans
MS3&MS3X v.3.0 PCB
30lb/hr Hi-Z inj.,230/232 @.050 on 114LSA cam
sequential fuel and sequential spark
LS3/LSA card MAF sensor
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Re: MS2/extra alpha 3.3.0b (2012/02/27)

Postby gslender » Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:10 pm

nismoautoxr wrote:will my VE maps need massive changes or just some minor tweaking? I set it to average but I also am at work and Id like to drive home without big surprises so if its not going to change a ton Ill leave it but if it will Ill go change it back. :lol:

Only minor ve changes so afr could be out by 1 but richer so safe :-)

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Re: MS2/extra alpha 3.3.0b (2012/02/27)

Postby nismoautoxr » Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:49 pm

yeah I went ahead and kept it .Questions though... changes in the car I have noticed ...I had to increase WUE a little , I had to change my AE to the richer side . I am still getting false AEs with a lag factor of 45 but I assume that TPS noise has not been implemented in this release ....so I wasnt expecting any improvement in that . TPS averaging did have an unexpected improvement to a problem I was having with the throttle body mechanically not returning to the same ADC each time depending on running or not . I am doing datalogs and analyzing those and as I change the VE table with each log the car runs better but I am having a problem with PID idle on cold starts. once it runs a minute or so it steadys out and is fine for the rest of the drive. Any suggestions on that would be fine . THing idled perfectly before at all times if that means anything.

So far...I am very impressed by the improvement in driveablilty.
Ricky-
1995 Nissan 240sx, LS1 v8 N/A 6speed trans
MS3&MS3X v.3.0 PCB
30lb/hr Hi-Z inj.,230/232 @.050 on 114LSA cam
sequential fuel and sequential spark
LS3/LSA card MAF sensor
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Re: MS2/extra alpha 3.3.0b (2012/02/27)

Postby gslender » Thu Apr 05, 2012 4:10 pm

nismoautoxr wrote:yeah I went ahead and kept it .Questions though... changes in the car I have noticed ...I had to increase WUE a little , I had to change my AE to the richer side . I am still getting false AEs with a lag factor of 45 but I assume that TPS noise has not been implemented in this release ....so I wasnt expecting any improvement in that . TPS averaging did have an unexpected improvement to a problem I was having with the throttle body mechanically not returning to the same ADC each time depending on running or not . I am doing datalogs and analyzing those and as I change the VE table with each log the car runs better but I am having a problem with PID idle on cold starts. once it runs a minute or so it steadys out and is fine for the rest of the drive. Any suggestions on that would be fine . THing idled perfectly before at all times if that means anything.

So far...I am very impressed by the improvement in driveablilty.


Just so we are all clear, what exact firmware are you running? 3.3.0b does not have any TPS averaging, but my fw mod 2.4.4 (based on 3.3.0b) does.... Probably best to post in the right area especially if you are having issues.

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Re: MS2/extra alpha 3.3.0b (2012/02/27)

Postby nismoautoxr » Thu Apr 05, 2012 6:44 pm

Thats strange that you say that because I didnt think so either. I followed the link that is attached to this thread in the first post . It definitely changed the behavior of my TPS for sure . If thats not TPS averaging then I apologize...still learning. Do you need my MSQ to see?
Ricky-
1995 Nissan 240sx, LS1 v8 N/A 6speed trans
MS3&MS3X v.3.0 PCB
30lb/hr Hi-Z inj.,230/232 @.050 on 114LSA cam
sequential fuel and sequential spark
LS3/LSA card MAF sensor
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Re: MS2/extra alpha 3.3.0b (2012/02/27)

Postby gslender » Thu Apr 05, 2012 6:51 pm

nismoautoxr wrote:Thats strange that you say that because I didnt think so either. I followed the link that is attached to this thread in the first post . It definitely changed the behavior of my TPS for sure . If thats not TPS averaging then I apologize...still learning. Do you need my MSQ to see?


When you say "changed the behaviour" it would depend on what version you came from and went to... So far you're not being overly clear or forthcoming with the details..... But yes, a msq always helps (as does a log of the issue in question).

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Re: MS2/extra alpha 3.3.0b (2012/02/27)

Postby nismoautoxr » Thu Apr 05, 2012 7:03 pm

OK. Lemme start form the beginning of my throttle body /TPS trials and tribulations.

I was on 3.2.1. I have a 100mm thottle body on a 95 240sx KA24DE motor with an Eaton m62 blower . The throttle plate on this thing is wonky. When vaccum is not present the plate moves from open to close freely with no inacuracys but once the engine is running and vaccum comes into play it has the tendency to hang just a touch above the calibrated ADC.

Before I changed to 3.3.0b the TPS guage on tuner studio would read 0% upon key on engine off then when I start the engine it is still 0% but once I open the throttle and let it close running it will usually return reading 1% on the TS guage . Since loading 3.3.0b firmware...it returns to 0 % running or not . This also solved all of the issues I was having with overun fuel cut as you might imagine the aforementioned behavior would cause :lol:

Ill atach an MSQ shortly when I get my tuning laptop out of the car .
Ricky-
1995 Nissan 240sx, LS1 v8 N/A 6speed trans
MS3&MS3X v.3.0 PCB
30lb/hr Hi-Z inj.,230/232 @.050 on 114LSA cam
sequential fuel and sequential spark
LS3/LSA card MAF sensor
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Re: MS2/extra alpha 3.3.0b (2012/02/27)

Postby gslender » Thu Apr 05, 2012 7:15 pm

nismoautoxr wrote:OK. Lemme start form the beginning of my throttle body /TPS trials and tribulations.

I was on 3.2.1. I have a 100mm thottle body on a 95 240sx KA24DE motor with an Eaton m62 blower . The throttle plate on this thing is wonky. When vaccum is not present the plate moves from open to close freely with no inacuracys but once the engine is running and vaccum comes into play it has the tendency to hang just a touch above the calibrated ADC.

Before I changed to 3.3.0b the TPS guage on tuner studio would read 0% upon key on engine off then when I start the engine it is still 0% but once I open the throttle and let it close running it will usually return reading 1% on the TS guage . Since loading 3.3.0b firmware...it returns to 0 % running or not . This also solved all of the issues I was having with overun fuel cut as you might imagine the aforementioned behavior would cause :lol:

Ill atach an MSQ shortly when I get my tuning laptop out of the car .


Nothing changed between 3.2.1 and 3.3.0b from a TPS perspective, so hard to say - I guess if you recalibrated the TPS it would account for that, but again, hard to say.

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Re: MS2/extra alpha 3.3.0b (2012/02/27)

Postby piledriver » Thu Apr 05, 2012 7:18 pm

Before I changed to 3.3.0b the TPS guage on tuner studio would read 0% upon key on engine off then when I start the engine it is still 0% but once I open the throttle and let it close running it will usually return reading 1% on the TS guage . Since loading 3.3.0b firmware...it returns to 0 % running or not . This also solved all of the issues I was having with overun fuel cut as you might imagine the aforementioned behavior would cause :lol:


That sounds more like what some of us old timers call "FM".
(F***ing Magic)
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Re: MS2/extra alpha 3.3.0b (2012/02/27)

Postby nismoautoxr » Thu Apr 05, 2012 7:31 pm

piledriver wrote:
Before I changed to 3.3.0b the TPS guage on tuner studio would read 0% upon key on engine off then when I start the engine it is still 0% but once I open the throttle and let it close running it will usually return reading 1% on the TS guage . Since loading 3.3.0b firmware...it returns to 0 % running or not . This also solved all of the issues I was having with overun fuel cut as you might imagine the aforementioned behavior would cause :lol:


That sounds more like what some of us old timers call "FM".
(F***ing Magic)


THERE YOU GO!!!! :yeah!: But seriously ....I didnt recal the TPS or anything . I just loaded the firmware ...loaded the ini. and the msq then recald the AFR and turned on the differant features such as averaged MAP and idle advance based on load and viola...but not to derail the thread any further ...my guess is that I changed something in the msq that was there all along and got good results to boot .

Ill start a new thread for the idle thing. Ill get a log in the morning of the cold start idle thing but i think alot of it may work itself out when the fuel map is revamped again. Dashpot doesnt seem to be working . I increased it to the max of 20 and it had no affect.....not sure what is going on there.
Ricky-
1995 Nissan 240sx, LS1 v8 N/A 6speed trans
MS3&MS3X v.3.0 PCB
30lb/hr Hi-Z inj.,230/232 @.050 on 114LSA cam
sequential fuel and sequential spark
LS3/LSA card MAF sensor
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Re: MS2/extra alpha 3.3.0b (2012/02/27)

Postby zmanco » Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:07 pm

I've finally had a chance to load this and drive for some time. While I had CL idle working reasonably well before, the new features deal with sudden loads so much better. Excellent!

I did notice a problem with MAP sampling. When I change from Use Lowest Value to Use Average, MS stops updating MAP. Whatever value it was at becomes frozen. Perhaps there is an issue with how it handles 2 MAP sensors for Real Time Baro? My MSQ is attached.
Daniel
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Re: MS2/extra alpha 3.3.0b (2012/02/27)

Postby racingmini_mtl » Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:28 pm

Did you try to power cycle after the change?

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Re: MS2/extra alpha 3.3.0b (2012/02/27)

Postby zmanco » Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:17 pm

Just checked and power cycling does not make a difference.
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Re: MS2/extra alpha 3.3.0b (2012/02/27)

Postby piledriver » Thu Apr 12, 2012 2:37 am

I'm using second baro and averaging, no issues.

Might want to try redownloading/reflashing.
Always doing things the hard way, MS2 sequential w/ v1.01 mainboard, LS2 coils. 80 mile/day commuter status.
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Re: MS2/extra alpha 3.3.0b (2012/02/27)

Postby jsmcortina » Thu Apr 12, 2012 2:40 am

If you are using EDIS then the MAP average doesn't work. Fixed for the next release.

James
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Re: MS2/extra alpha 3.3.0b (2012/02/27)

Postby zmanco » Thu Apr 12, 2012 5:07 am

I am using EDIS so that's the issue. Thanks for clarifying.
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Re: MS2/extra alpha 3.3.0b (2012/02/27)

Postby Peras » Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:01 am

Tried the new code on Audi 1.8T, seq inj and ign
MAP is working a lot smoother then with 3.2.1, everything else seems fine ad the cars runs very smooth.

Only thing I've noticed that wasn't there before is that after a good heat soak (MAT around 50-60°C) the AFR goes so lean that the engine starts to misfire and stumble. For he first time I had to use the MAT correction table to get rid of that issue.
d*** that MAT and ideal gas law, always playing with my AFRs :D
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