[FW MOD] ms2extra 3.3.0b gslender v2.4.4

This is a forum for discussing the development and testing of alpha MS2/Extra code. Documentation
(Runs on MS2 and Microsquirt)

Moderators: jsmcortina, muythaibxr

pigga
Master MS/Extra'er
Posts: 618
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 12:44 pm

Re: [FW MOD] ms2extra 3.3.0b gslender v2.4.4

Post by pigga »

Ye-ha.
It runs!! My neighbors may hate me right now (as its 10pm) but that's worth it!
I would say that the idle code (as it is now) it makes way, way much easier to get good results.
With the assymetric PID it even seems to be much more bulletproof.
May I know what P, I and D terms you guys dialed in?
For me, MS2 now is nearby perfect.
Thomas
gslender
Super MS/Extra'er
Posts: 1072
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2011 5:29 am
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Contact:

Re: [FW MOD] ms2extra 3.3.0b gslender v2.4.4

Post by gslender »

pigga wrote:Ye-ha.
It runs!! My neighbors may hate me right now (as its 10pm) but that's worth it!
I would say that the idle code (as it is now) it makes way, way much easier to get good results.
With the assymetric PID it even seems to be much more bulletproof.
May I know what P, I and D terms you guys dialed in?
For me, MS2 now is nearby perfect.
Thomas
Woohoo :yeah!:

P 70, I 50, D 100

But my adaptive pid curve looks like a dog's hind leg.... :lol:
Mazda MX5 + MS3 Pro
gslender
Super MS/Extra'er
Posts: 1072
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2011 5:29 am
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Contact:

Re: [FW MOD] ms2extra 3.3.0b gslender v2.4.4

Post by gslender »

Oh, and I posted my msq in previous posts so review that for the settings I use for Adaptive idle advance, volt comp, and adaptive pid.... Along with the usual suspects.

G
Mazda MX5 + MS3 Pro
Hahns5.2
Helpful MS/Extra'er
Posts: 141
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:54 pm
Location: Battle Ground WA

Re: [FW MOD] ms2extra 3.3.0b gslender v2.4.4

Post by Hahns5.2 »

Briefly tried this firmware this morning.. TPS noise was off the charts compared to the 3.2.1 v2.2c sliding window filtering... Maybe I'm dense or something? Anyways, I went back to the 3.2.1 v2.2c for the time being.
95 Dakota, 5.2, 5 speed, 4x2, HX40, 12PSI, MS3X, 42lb Bosch Design 3 Injectors, AEM UEGO.
gslender
Super MS/Extra'er
Posts: 1072
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2011 5:29 am
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Contact:

Re: [FW MOD] ms2extra 3.3.0b gslender v2.4.4

Post by gslender »

Hahns5.2 wrote:Briefly tried this firmware this morning.. TPS noise was off the charts compared to the 3.2.1 v2.2c sliding window filtering... Maybe I'm dense or something? Anyways, I went back to the 3.2.1 v2.2c for the time being.
Didn't grab a log or msq of the settings tried did ya?

G
Mazda MX5 + MS3 Pro
pigga
Master MS/Extra'er
Posts: 618
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 12:44 pm

Re: [FW MOD] ms2extra 3.3.0b gslender v2.4.4

Post by pigga »

Hi.
I encountered no TPS noise so far (but I never have hat TPS noise trouble before either).

I just noticed that I had slight jerking of the engine since 2007. I had it with MS1, with MS2 and now it's 90% gone! :yeah!: The only thing I noticed over the years was a really slight "jitter" on the RPM graph.
The jerking occurred for the first time when I converted from stock hall distributor (with 4 vanes) to 60-2wheel. Obviously the "averaging" of RPM information is not such a bad Idea at all? Side effects are more steady AFRs at idle and smoother Idle as well. To my eyes this seems the superior smoothing algorithm for RPM signal (maybe some user with MegaSquirted Motorcycle or similar will try this and give feedback)
Will take it for a ride to work on Monday and see what's happening :-)
Thomas

P.S.: @Hahns5.2 -the new, better, improved (...) TPS smoothing is a bit hidden in this firmware. Hopefully you noticed the TPS smooting options at the "Idle enhancement" tab?
Hahns5.2
Helpful MS/Extra'er
Posts: 141
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:54 pm
Location: Battle Ground WA

Re: [FW MOD] ms2extra 3.3.0b gslender v2.4.4

Post by Hahns5.2 »

pigga wrote:P.S.: @Hahns5.2 -the new, better, improved (...) TPS smoothing is a bit hidden in this firmware. Hopefully you noticed the TPS smooting options at the "Idle enhancement" tab?
I didn't look there, the stock PCM still controls the IAC so I typically have no reason to look there... Thanks though, perhaps I'll give it a shot again tomorrow morning!
95 Dakota, 5.2, 5 speed, 4x2, HX40, 12PSI, MS3X, 42lb Bosch Design 3 Injectors, AEM UEGO.
gslender
Super MS/Extra'er
Posts: 1072
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2011 5:29 am
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Contact:

Re: [FW MOD] ms2extra 3.3.0b gslender v2.4.4

Post by gslender »

Also, I assume both of you (and everyone else) knew to turn on TPS average sampling under the General Lag settings?

Yeah?

G
Mazda MX5 + MS3 Pro
Hahns5.2
Helpful MS/Extra'er
Posts: 141
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:54 pm
Location: Battle Ground WA

Re: [FW MOD] ms2extra 3.3.0b gslender v2.4.4

Post by Hahns5.2 »

gslender wrote:Also, I assume both of you (and everyone else) knew to turn on TPS average sampling under the General Lag settings?

Yeah?

G
Yes. Went out and loaded the firmware again with my new found knowledge and it seems to work well. Dropped my TPSdot threshold another 5%/s and upped the lag factor from 90 to 95. Any insight on the two values, "TPS movement is considered change", which is pretty self explanatory, I'm starting with value of 1, but what about "No TPS movement resets DOT"?
95 Dakota, 5.2, 5 speed, 4x2, HX40, 12PSI, MS3X, 42lb Bosch Design 3 Injectors, AEM UEGO.
gslender
Super MS/Extra'er
Posts: 1072
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2011 5:29 am
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Contact:

Re: [FW MOD] ms2extra 3.3.0b gslender v2.4.4

Post by gslender »

Hahns5.2 wrote:what about "No TPS movement resets DOT"?
Relates to how long does no TPS further movement beyond an initial spike (noise) equal resetting tpsDOT back to zero. Think of what happens when dot is being calculated, TPS is climbing and climbing (rapidly) compared to just noise, which is a high but quickly returned to zero TPS movement.

A value of 100ms is normally fine. Particularly nosiy TPS might need 200ms... But lower values are best.

You should be able to run with AE threshold of 20 tpsdot and get no false triggers.

G
Mazda MX5 + MS3 Pro
Hahns5.2
Helpful MS/Extra'er
Posts: 141
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:54 pm
Location: Battle Ground WA

Re: [FW MOD] ms2extra 3.3.0b gslender v2.4.4

Post by Hahns5.2 »

gslender wrote:
Hahns5.2 wrote:what about "No TPS movement resets DOT"?
Relates to how long does no TPS further movement beyond an initial spike (noise) equal resetting tpsDOT back to zero. Think of what happens when dot is being calculated, TPS is climbing and climbing (rapidly) compared to just noise, which is a high but quickly returned to zero TPS movement.

A value of 100ms is normally fine. Particularly nosiy TPS might need 200ms... But lower values are best.

You should be able to run with AE threshold of 20 tpsdot and get no false triggers.

G
That makes sense, thanks. Currently down to 30, 20 would be nice!
95 Dakota, 5.2, 5 speed, 4x2, HX40, 12PSI, MS3X, 42lb Bosch Design 3 Injectors, AEM UEGO.
gslender
Super MS/Extra'er
Posts: 1072
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2011 5:29 am
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Contact:

Re: [FW MOD] ms2extra 3.3.0b gslender v2.4.4

Post by gslender »

Add docs to the 1st post.

G
Mazda MX5 + MS3 Pro
msegt
Helpful MS/Extra'er
Posts: 81
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:10 pm
Location: boston,ny

Re: [FW MOD] ms2extra 3.3.0b gslender v2.4.4

Post by msegt »

not sure if i misread, but is all pid live now? as in no hitting send between changes till your done and actually send it?
95 escort gt BPT - MS2E/ms2extra pre3.3alpha5 gslender v2.8 - E85 - 256/250 on mustang dyno at 10psi, now tuning for gtr turbo
gslender
Super MS/Extra'er
Posts: 1072
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2011 5:29 am
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Contact:

Re: [FW MOD] ms2extra 3.3.0b gslender v2.4.4

Post by gslender »

msegt wrote:not sure if i misread, but is all pid live now? as in no hitting send between changes till your done and actually send it?
Yes, correct.

G
Mazda MX5 + MS3 Pro
pigga
Master MS/Extra'er
Posts: 618
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 12:44 pm

Re: [FW MOD] ms2extra 3.3.0b gslender v2.4.4

Post by pigga »

Hi.
1st of all thanks for updating the docs!
One more question: Will adaptive PID reduce only the "P"-Term or "I" and "D" as well?

Pigga
gslender
Super MS/Extra'er
Posts: 1072
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2011 5:29 am
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Contact:

Re: [FW MOD] ms2extra 3.3.0b gslender v2.4.4

Post by gslender »

pigga wrote:Hi.
1st of all thanks for updating the docs!
One more question: Will adaptive PID reduce only the "P"-Term or "I" and "D" as well?

Pigga
It reduces all terms equally, but to assist with logging behaviour, I logged the change to P so you can visually see the change.

G
Mazda MX5 + MS3 Pro
msegt
Helpful MS/Extra'er
Posts: 81
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:10 pm
Location: boston,ny

Re: [FW MOD] ms2extra 3.3.0b gslender v2.4.4

Post by msegt »

diagnostics is gone again
95 escort gt BPT - MS2E/ms2extra pre3.3alpha5 gslender v2.8 - E85 - 256/250 on mustang dyno at 10psi, now tuning for gtr turbo
gslender
Super MS/Extra'er
Posts: 1072
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2011 5:29 am
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Contact:

Re: [FW MOD] ms2extra 3.3.0b gslender v2.4.4

Post by gslender »

msegt wrote:diagnostics is gone again
It goes because earlier and later versions of TS look for a particular Signature string that is defined by the INI file used by the firmware.

Did you try 3.3.0b and confirm the diagnositcs tab works then? I'm actually not really sure what specifically it needs to see (and if there is room to allow version changes needed by the firmware etc.)

g
Mazda MX5 + MS3 Pro
msegt
Helpful MS/Extra'er
Posts: 81
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:10 pm
Location: boston,ny

Re: [FW MOD] ms2extra 3.3.0b gslender v2.4.4

Post by msegt »

ya i just changed from b to yours and its gone again, just figured id tell ya
95 escort gt BPT - MS2E/ms2extra pre3.3alpha5 gslender v2.8 - E85 - 256/250 on mustang dyno at 10psi, now tuning for gtr turbo
gslender
Super MS/Extra'er
Posts: 1072
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2011 5:29 am
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Contact:

Re: [FW MOD] ms2extra 3.3.0b gslender v2.4.4

Post by gslender »

For example, Phil posted this a while back in resposne to a similar question about another firmware built by MarioB
It needs to start with these to be identified as MS2e 3.x in TS 1.004:
MS2Extra Rel 3
MS2Extra Serial
MS2Extra serial

For future I can add the pattern "MS2Extra 3" in the next beta to support as it is..
The serial signature in 2.4.4 is...
"MS2Extra Ser GSv24 "

and the alpha released 3.3.0b is...
"MS2Extra Serial330b"

So I guess I stuffed it and can change it back... but doesn't leave much room for version numbers etc....

I'll ask Phil to focus on something less if possible...

G
Mazda MX5 + MS3 Pro
Post Reply