Feature request: table blending

[burdickjp]

Having not worked with an MS2 in a while, I was unaware that table blending wasn't implemented in MS2. What's the likelyhood of this feature being incorporated?
http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms3/tables.html

[jsmcortina]

There are no current plans, that's an MS3 feature.

James

[burdickjp]

There are no current plans, that's an MS3 feature.

Is there a relationship between those two statements?

Table blending is very useful.

[jsmcortina]

MS3 is the higher-end product with more features, that's how it works.

James

[burdickjp]

MS3 is the higher-end product with more features, that's how it works.

Is this a hardware related feature?

[elaw]

I suspect "processor-capability-related" might be a better description. MS3 processor is faster and has more memory than MS2, thus can do more in general and more in a given amount of time... which of course is important when controlling an engine.

Plus of course all development of the code is subject to the discretion of the people doing it - and the developers have made it very clear here that not all MS3 features will be backported to MS2.

[burdickjp]

Understandably so, but I'm having trouble accepting that a feature cannot be implemented simply because it exists in MS3. That's kinda crappy.

[jsmcortina]

Megasquirt is a commercial product and we make commercial decisions about feature sets.

James

[mrx79]

Understandably so, but I'm having trouble accepting that a feature cannot be implemented simply because it exists in MS3. That's kinda crappy.

Even if it's maybe uncompfortable, but i can understand the development team. Think about what they get back for the imense amount of work they invest in their sparetimes. And never the less, MSExtra is still open-source, this is a great advantage, so it's free for everyone to implement a feature he needs or thinks he might need and recompile the code.

And for those who can't programm themselfs, i'am sure a capable engineer and coder who can understand C and microcontrollers can write code for small money.

Thats far more then you can expect from a 100% commercial closed development system, even if they provide the wanted feature, the price is usualy much higher then a MS2.

I also would like to see a ALS code in MS2 and i'am sad that it will propably be not implemented any more, but if the time comes, i can write and compile it by myself and I'am very happy, even if it takes some of my sparetime.

Also what elaw saied, is very true... even if it can be implemented, it's more then tight in the MS2 CPU and careful decisions have to be made, not to screw up some important things like ignition timing at max. rev due to a CPU load overload. Thats easier saied then done. ;-)

[jsmcortina]

Sorry to be pedantic, but it is not open-source.

The source is available to users only on official hardware. This means that if you bought a Megasquirt then, yes you can indeed customise the firmware for use on your Megasquirt. What isn't allowed is using the firmware or modifications of it on other hardware.

Check the LICENSE.txt and LICENSE-SOURCE.txt that comes with the firmware.

James

[mrx79]

Sorry, of course you are right... i also only wanted to point to the possibility that if someone need a certain function for himself, there is the possibility to code it on your own for personal use. But of course the term was not 100% correct, the license agreement must of course be kept in mind. ;-)

[dontz125]

An interesting point in mrx79's pprevious post just went by quickly - what are the devs' thoughts on a code-knowledgable third party doing custom work for a fee? I rather assume the standard caveats of MS hardware and restricted distribution would apply.

[racingmini_mtl]

An interesting point in mrx79's pprevious post just went by quickly - what are the devs' thoughts on a code-knowledgable third party doing custom work for a fee? I rather assume the standard caveats of MS hardware and restricted distribution would apply.

Ignoring for the moment whether of not the changes and the way they'd be used would be acceptable, I would think that a right of first refusal by the developers for paid work on the code would be something to consider. So if none of the developers is ready to do the work then a third party could be involved.

Jean

[burdickjp]

Think about what they get back for the imense amount of work they invest in their sparetimes.

Make no mistake here. Megasquirt is a commercial product and the developers are financially compensated for their work.

However Megasquirt got a reputation for being open source, it is not currently the case.

[dontz125]

As you say, "make no mistake" - whatever compensation they may have received / continue to receive for the MS3 firmware, the MS2/extra code was developed at the hobby level. B&G continues to develop their own official firmware for the MS2 and Microsquirt family, so the Extra code isn't officially part of that commercial venture. I seriously doubt that whatever compensation the devs receive for maintaining and further developing the MS2/Extra code even remotely comes close to the value they put into it.

MS has never been "open source." It has the reputation of being OS because people so rarely see the published source and schematics of copyright electronic devices.

[jsmcortina]

However Megasquirt got a reputation for being open source, it is not currently the case.

As Don says, that is in fact incorrect, unfortunately there is a lot of urban myth over the internet.

However, looking at things positively, Megasquirt is possibly the only commercial ECU that gives you access to the source code at no extra cost and allows end-user customisation.

The support forum (this one) gives customers unrivalled access to knowledgeable support including the actual developers.

James

[burdickjp]

However, looking at things positively, Megasquirt is possibly the only commercial ECU that gives you access to the source code at no extra cost and allows end-user customization.

The support forum (this one) gives customers unrivaled access to knowledgeable support including the actual developers.

There's also good reason for MS being closed-source, license-tied to hardware, and for that hardware to be kept so strictly defined.

Look at how capable and well documented the MS system is. Now go look at any of the open source efforts and see how fragmented, half baked, and underdocumented they are. Off the top of my head I'd say the FreeEMS system is the best example of this.

Keeping the MS code and hardware together and closed makes things much easier to develop and support.

[Matt Cramer]

Back when I was getting into EFI (around 2004) the main rivalry was between MegaSquirt and VEMS. The MegaSquirt guys had put a ton of work into documenting how to use, install, and modify the MegaSquirt. The VEMS Group had put an equal amount of effort into documenting how much they hated MegaSquirt instead of how to use their system. That made it a pretty easy choice.

[slyrye]

Is the secondary fuel and ignition load setup in MS2 isn't some sort of table blending? how's that not suffice?

[dontz125]

Take a look at the link in the first post. Table blending offers another dimension of, well, blending to get a desired VE (or spark) value. Assuming you have primary and secondary VE tables based on SD, you could 'blend' the two together using TPS, giving a 4D VE value. That's a simplistic example, the actual possibilities are beyond my experience.