New to Megasquirt

[Dannyr]

Hi


Im Danny, I live in Belgium and I'm a big car enthousiast.

I drive an Audi 80 '92 with a (slow) 90hp 2.0 8v engine with a single point injection. The engine code is ABT.

While rebuilding the engine head, I noticed the intake ports were much larger (in total) then the single point injector that sits on top of the intake manifold. (the injector is only 36mm in diameter)
So I started building a custom intake with 4 40mm Mikuni carburators.
While building the intake, i noticed the length of the intake was getting too long (40+cm). It had to be this long to be able to connect the carburators verticaly. So i gave up on the carburator idea...
This engine has the intake and exhaust on the same side of the engine head. I'll add a pictur of the head to make it clear.
So now i have an unfinished intake and just found out about Megasquirt.

I want to build a new custom intake (4 to 1) with 4 injectors as close to the intake as possible. I guess will also need some kind of an air flow sensor and a throttle valve sensor?
What else do I need? Is there anyone who can help me out?

Im thinking of following;
-Megasquirt 1,2 or 3?
-Fuel rail + fuel lines
-4 injectors (no idea how much cc)
-Air flow sensor

Im having trouble finding the right kit to start off with, and I'm not sure which parts I need to buy to get it running.
I appologise for my bad english, i hope everything is clear. The technical terms are a pain...


Danny

[billr]

I'll try to get this thread moving for you: I recommend using the MS3, there is really little difference in what the over-all cost of the project is going to be. Personally, I would not bother with some kind of air-flow sensor (MAF); millions of engines run nicely without that. Post some pictures of the intended intake system (runners, plenum, throttles, etc.) to get better comments on that. Use a crank-mounted missing-tooth crank wheel, it will give you a lot of options and is simple to use.

[DaveEFI]

Is there perhaps a later version of your engine which has multi-point injection?That would simplify matters greatly.

[Ollie8974]

Also use the search on this Forum.

[elaw]

Is there perhaps a later version of your engine which has multi-point injection?That would simplify matters greatly.

Dave's got it right!

Your project will be 100 times easier if you just locate a compatible head & intake manifold from an engine that had multi-point fuel injection to begin with. Best would be a Digifant car - Digifant is an electronic FI system VW used and you might even get the injectors and fuel rail with the head/intake. But you can use the head/intake from a CIS (Bosch K- or KE-Jetronic) injected car too. The CIS mechanical injectors are quite a bit different from electrical injectors, but they sit in plastic "cups" that can be removed and replaced with ones that accommodate EFI injectors. Then you're just left making a fuel rail, or maybe could get one from a Digifant car.

Between Digifant and CIS, VW and Audi sold hundreds of thousands of cars with fuel-injected variants of that engine so the parts should not be hard to find.

Re the Megasquirt itself, I'd say Megasquirt 2 at a minimum. But if you can afford it, MS3 is quite a bit better, and better still with the MS3X add-on card.

[prof315]

Is there perhaps a later version of your engine which has multi-point injection?That would simplify matters greatly.

Dave's got it right!

Your project will be 100 times easier if you just locate a compatible head & intake manifold from an engine that had multi-point fuel injection to begin with. Best would be a Digifant car - Digifant is an electronic FI system VW used and you might even get the injectors and fuel rail with the head/intake. But you can use the head/intake from a CIS (Bosch K- or KE-Jetronic) injected car too. The CIS mechanical injectors are quite a bit different from electrical injectors, but they sit in plastic "cups" that can be removed and replaced with ones that accommodate EFI injectors. Then you're just left making a fuel rail, or maybe could get one from a Digifant car.

Between Digifant and CIS, VW and Audi sold hundreds of thousands of cars with fuel-injected variants of that engine so the parts should not be hard to find.

Re the Megasquirt itself, I'd say Megasquirt 2 at a minimum. But if you can afford it, MS3 is quite a bit better, and better still with the MS3X add-on card.

Dave is absolutely right and Eric is going in the right direction but I would look for either an ABA (2.0L 8V CROSSFLOW) head, intake, throttle body, and fuel rail w/injectors or even a complete ABA to swap in or if you are ambitious you could find the head, intake, etc... from an ABF (2.0L 16V). The great thing about VW/Audi in-line 4 cylinder engines is that they are Legos! Franken-motor hybrids are easy to build and quite common. The ABF or a clone can make an easy 150+ WHP with an MS2 or MS3

[Dannyr]

Thank you very much for all the info.
First of all, my budget is not a problem, I was just wondering if MS3 was that much better then MS2. So MS3 it will be.
I agree swapping the engine would be easiest, but i just did an overhaul on the engine head, so I really want to keep this one.
In the future I'm going to swap this 4 cilinder for a 2.3 5 cilinder engine and I will be using the MS ecu on that engine aswell. That engine will get boosted.
Im going to search for a VW Golf 3 GTI 8V intake manifold, they use the Digifant injection. I did some research and it looks like the intake ports are exactly the same as mine.

This pops up some more questions...

So if I read this correctly, almost all VW heads will fit my engine? As long as its a 2 liter head?
The Digifant injectors are "normal" injectors and can be switched with Bosch injectors if needed? In case there is a bad injector if I buy the intake.
Is there anyone who might have an intake manifold of a VW GTI engine around 1990 and willing to measure the distance between the 4 intakes or just the bolts? Just to be sure, internet had alot of incorrect info unfortunately.
Is the Digifant system of the GTI 8V and 16V intake exactly the same?


Danny

[elaw]

In the future I'm going to swap this 4 cilinder for a 2.3 5 cilinder engine and I will be using the MS ecu on that engine aswell. That engine will get boosted.

Neat! Just be aware that there are some special considerations with VAG 5-cylinder engines, especially relating to crank triggering. If you do some searching here there are a number of threads about that.

The Digifant injectors are "normal" injectors and can be switched with Bosch injectors if needed? In case there is a bad injector if I buy the intake.

As far as I know. One thing to be aware of is that there are "high impedance" and "low impedance" injectors, and there are some special considerations with the low-impedance ones. When you get the hardware, you can check the injectors with an ohmmeter - if their resistance is over about 8 ohms, they're high-impedance and should work with no problem. I'm 90% sure Digifant injectors are all high-impedance but definitely check.

Is the Digifant system of the GTI 8V and 16V intake exactly the same?

That might depend on the country and the particular engine? I seem to remember from 20+ years ago when I worked on them that here in the USA the 16V cars all had CIS - Digifant was only on the 8-valves. But that may well be different on later cars or in other parts of the world. Actually it *must* have changed on later cars, as CIS (also known as K-Jetronic or KE-Jetronic) wasn't used after about 1993.

[Dannyr]

Thats a fast reply!

Oh yes, I will do my research when I get that 5 cilinder engine.
It will be in 2 years+ though, my car is from 1993 and in Belgium your car has to be 25 years to be an "oldtimer" and you can just do whatever you want with the car, all you have to do is get the car approved once and then the fun begins

Ok thats good to know, Ill take my ohm meter with me when I go buy the intake.

I found an intake manifold of a Golf 3 GTI 8V, with injectors and fuel rail included. The ports seem to match as far as I can see on the picture he send me. I might have to weld the top of the intake tho, the holes are much larger in height. Ill post the pic here.
Im waiting for more pics from the owner. If its not damaged Ill most likely go buy it tomorrow.

*Edit: just got 2 more pictures, i dont think this will fit as the injectors are in the part that makes the "hole" too big for my head...

[elaw]

Yeah it looks like that intake is designed for a different head... and the tall holes are so the injectors can spray on the backs of the valves.

I'm not sure how well it would work if you blocked off the upper part of the ports.

Edit: I see you added some photos to your last post. I really don't think that intake would work well with the mod you mention - the injectors would pretty much be spraying directly at a wall of metal rather than into the intake airflow.

[Dannyr]

Thats what i thought, so the 2L GTI 8V intake wont work. Ill keep searching for different intakes with injectors.
I will find one that fits. And if I dont, theres still the option to make a custom intake.

Seems like the intake of a Golf 1 1.8 GTI is a bolt-on, but it doesnt have direct injection... Added a pic of that

*Edit: after quite some searching it seems that there is no intake manifold that fits my 8V head. An intake with injectors mounted close the the intake ports.

I did find one without injectors, the one on the picture. They can be found pretty easily.
Would it be worth trying to buy that, and simply drill holes in them, put the injectors in and make a custom fuel rail?

Or maybe, buying the 2.0 GTI 8V intake, making an adaptor out of a block of aluminum to match the heads ports, and weld it together? That would be alot of work though.

[Dannyr]

This can be closed, I bought myself an Audi 2.3 5 cylinder.
Much more tuning potential, and Ill get the MS3 fitted when I finished the paperwork etc.
Thanks for the help!