MS3 onto a Cross Bolted RV8 4.6?

[doctrucker]

Hi all,

Potential new user here. Researching a project for about 6 months time. Just read through a 48 page thread (on lr4x4) on putting MS1 with EDIS-8 into a v-belt RV8. I've a running 4.6 available that I'd like to squirt and spark. This is a cross bolted serpentine belt model, but not with the later thor manifold. I'd like to know if anyone has strapped MS3 onto one of these engines? I'm searching all the time for information, but good recommendations on threads/articals to read would be great.

If possible I'd like to read in the OEM cam and crank sensor, I'll have a read to try and find part numbers for these.

I appreciate the gains of full sequential injection and and spark are reported to be marginal. If I do go MS3 I'd like to wire for all the bells and whistles (including knock sensors) even as my first tuning sessions are likely to be safeish basic batch fired.

Cheers for any recommended reads.

[doctrucker]

It looks like the following part codes for the CAM, Crank, and knock sensors;

CAM: ERR6169 ('97 - '02 3 pole) or NSC500610G ('95 - '96)
Crank: ERR6119 ('97 - '98, 2 pole 1.3kohm) or ADU7342L ('95 - '96 2 pole 1.4kohm)
Knock: ERR5594 ('95 - '99 Lucas 42715A)

[Matt Cramer]

Do you have any information on the trigger wheel patterns?

[DaveEFI]

Did the versions before the Thor have a cam sensor?

The snag with using the flywheel trigger is most are autos. If you are staying auto, or have got the rare manual flywheel, ISTR reading it can be done. But no big deal to fit a 36-1 to the front of the crank.

Perhaps the best place I've come across for RV8 info - and several have MS - is http://www.v8forum.co.uk/forum

Depending on the quality of petrol where you live, you may not need to bother with knock sensors. I've not on my 3.5 with a 9.75:1 CR.

[doctrucker]

Thanks for your help!

There's a thread on LR4x4 with a picture of the crank sensor. I'm not too concerned about this as a friend who's very familiar with Megasquirt said it was a standard pattern encoder wheel:

http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=82293

The cam sensor looks like it may be a bit more tricky. I'm at work now and can't post photos, but here's a link to the engine workshop manual:

http://www.landroverresource.com/40_46_V8_overhaul.pdf

...and the cam chain cog is shown on page 16. I think the odd sized spokes is what the sensor watches for. I'm assuming the sensor is a three wire proxy sensor but not certain. I've asked the person who has the engine for engine/chassis number to help me find out more accurate information.

Lots of reading required but so far the MS3 doesn't seem too scary to work with!

Edit: "...said it was a standard pattern encoder:" changed to "...said it was a standard pattern encoder wheel:"

[DaveEFI]

As far as I know, the GEMS system used a 36-1 on the flywheel which can be used with EDIS.

[doctrucker]

My preference at the moment is to logic level signal the coils (drivers in the coils) from the MS3. I'll ask on the V8 forum about their set ups. Slipped my mind to consider asking there! I'm signed up on there already.

Edit: I'm keen to be eventually able to look at tuning for sequential injection as the engine will be in a heavy 4x4 (well, compared to for instance a lowcost!), and will be used for green laning, pay and play, and possibly towing. Any improvements in low down torque or efficiency that don't cripple the top end are welcome! Since the cam angle will need to be read in one way or another while I appreciate the robustness and ease of use of the EDIS system I don't see the point of wasted spark when I could wire for fully sequential spark?

Assuming cam angle sensor will be there either way comparing the sequential spark to wasted (rather than comparing the hardware) is the only benefit cost savings and ease of set up?

[DaveEFI]

Obviously you'll need a cam sensor if you go sequential injection, so you then have the easy choice of sequential ignition or wasted spark. Just whether sequential ignition is worth the extra cost over wasted spark on this engine is the question. Bosch stuck with wasted spark on the Thor with sequential injection - I'd guess because COP isn't practical. I doubt cost came into it.

[doctrucker]

Fair point about cost with the Thor, I was unaware of what type of ignition it was using.

The MS3x manual lists the following VAG 06A905104 coil pack as logic level. Two of them are about the same cost as a new P38 coil pack - the one on the engine is knackered! LS1 or LS2 packs would give plenty of after market options, but seem to be more expensive.

I was thinking about the only benefit being there are less high voltage/electrically noisy events. COP is nice in concept as it removes the HT leads, but the ones I've seen on a very brief search look like they'd be a challenge to fit.

[DaveEFI]

I looked at things quite carefully on my RV8, following advice gleaned from several sources. Logic level COP would have been my first choice - since that is what most new design engines seem to go for. But heat from the exhaust manifolds is the likely problem with the RV8. Next would be LS type coils, but as you say they are pricey in the UK - and also not easy to make a tidy installation on the earlier injection RV8.

EDIS coils are cheap and plentiful in the UK. They can be used with other high current ignition drivers. I personally don't like trying to cram those inside MS, so if not using an EDIS module, intend fitting them in an external box, rather like an EDIS module. Or use a QuadSpark. When I change my MS2 to an MS3 and go sequential injection. I'd need persuading to go sequential ignition over wasted spark on a road engine.

[angus99]

I used the p38 coil packs when converting my 5.0 RV8 (TVR engine) form dizzy to wasted spark. these fit nicely behind the plenum which is a lot neater than mounting above the rocker covers. Standard 36-1 toothed wheel and crank sensor, all wired back to the ECU. Mines only MS2 though so probably a much simpler set up than you're looking for with MS3.