Totota 1GZ-FE V12

[Joe V12]

hi, ok, I spent the day with the manual and my tuning program and I think I made some progress, or at least I have found more things and I think set them correctly. on the AFR, I still need to rewire it, will do first thing tomorrow. it spends all it's time saying "heater", so I know that isn't working right (IF AFR is my two o2 sensors). here are my newest files. I am not sure I am doing the high speed one right. right now the motor starts easily and consistently, idles rough but good, it doesn't have good throttle response, rough, smooths out by 3krpm pretty well. it does roar, I am waiting for mufflers. i'll fix the o2 controllers tomorrow. in doing the cam advance test, left side appears to work right, right is buggy, I will try to get to the bottom of that. no, I didn't do the injectors, I have committed to mailing them out Monday, so then I will be down for a bit. I am new to feul injection, and I didn't know that I should, I am learning. the injector settings now are guesses (recommended and calculated). (including flow rate). I guess when I get injectors back or get new ones at least then I can have correct numbers. I have a 4th file, another high speed logging that I have to do a second post to upload. you know I started this tune with the one that was included with the tuning software and I think there are still many settings that are left over from that, settings I don't need (like the injector trims, I found those this morning and set all to 0) and I have conflicts. the ones that show up on booting the software I have cleaned up, but some don't show up till the motor is started. I think I particularly have conflicts or wrong settings in the pwm stuff. the settings I did are pins, pwm 1, 2 etc, but there are these "generic pwm A, B etc" settings and I think those are where my problems are. While my injectors are being done I will stay on this laptop and the manual and hopefully know better what I am doing. my idle timing was set at 10btdc, and was working correct, don't know when I messed that up, that could be my roughness. i'll post again tomorrow, after I fix the timing and o2, then rip out my injectors to overnite out Monday. and "hi" jacky4566, than you for your input, will do all those in the morning and see how it goes

[Joe V12]

last file

[suberimakuri]

Good one. Working o2 will simplify your life.

[Joe V12]

O2 controllers now working correctly. I overnighted the injectors yesterday(Monday), I am waiting to hear how they are to decide to have them serviced, or to buy new ones. I don't know enough to know if a little bigger would be better. when I hear what their flow rates are I will go through the math and hopefully be able to decide. thanks everyone, I will spend the time that the injectors are out neatening up my wiring and connecting stuff that is still to be done, like my intake manifold runner length solenoids. and I have to get to the bottom of why one cam is advancing and one isn't. when I run the engine, sometimes vvt1 and always vvt2 and sometimes cam error buttons turn red. And the logging shows me vvt1 moving and vvt2 not. I guess I have enough to do while the injectors are out. thank you everyone for your support.

[jacky4566]

If the stock injectors dont have enough flow you can cheat and bump up the fuel pressure. You can do this until the injector seizes (Probably around 70psi). I know I'd rather not pay for 12 injectors myself. You could also get fancy with a PWM fuel pump and have variable pressure with fuel load.

Keep in mind you will need more pump to keep up with high pressure flows.

[Joe V12]

roger on that jacky, I already bought a high pressure high volume fuel pump, right now the Toyota regulator that came with the engine fuel rails is 50psi, and I am still trying to get the pwm to work, I think I got a bad solid state relay, but it is in my plans to investigate after I get the motor running well stock. I installed fuel pressure sender today, and ran wires so I can have the ms3pro run the fan relays, trying to figure out where to connect them, I think digital outs? I want one to come on at 180 and one to come on at 190 degrees. sinking the bottom of the relay to ground? I have used high current 1 and 2 on injectors, and 3 to turn my runner length solenoids on/off, pwms to my 2 cam oil control valves and bmw type IAC valve two pins.

[Joe V12]

ok, got my injectors back, you have no idea, fed ex tracking said they were delivered to garage door, but they weren't here. I sent kids out to look at every house's garage door on the island, finally found them hidden a few doors down, next to a side regular door into their garage, not next to the big garage door the way we were looking first passes by. whew! so after getting the injectors in and all back together including converting the throttle bodies to mechanical linkage, I got it started and still had the left side miss-fire problem, ripped off the manifolds and plugs and did a compression test to that bank, all great, 100 - 150 - 180 1st, second, and third cranks and all settled up around 190 psi, cold engine. did the coils test again and found that the plugs were misfiring, apparently fouled from running way over-rich. new plugs, back together again, and it now runs smooth, equal exaust temps, good vacuum. I had also unhooked the cam oil control valves, because it looked like one was advancing and one wasn't. I still have the vvt1, vvt2, and cam errors. boy, I have to learn every thing the hard way. I used the tune files that came with the ms3pro, as the manual advised, and tried to change everything to my engine, but I guess there is still a lot set wrong. anyways, I had originally calculated my injectors should be about 250cc, and used that value in my initial settings, turns out they are 270, so I changed that little bit and re-ran the fuel calculations. I went through all the settings I could find to do with starting and warmup and enrichment and changed them all to about 10% of what they were, so hopefully my richness and plug fouling is over. I really don't like my dual throttle body setup at this point, I wonder if I can make a manifold to combine the two manifolds and use one bigger aftermarket TBS? seems to me that would eliminate a lot of problems. the Toyota air intake in front of the TBS's is pushing two feet long from the TBS to the air cleaners, would an extra 6 inches of manifold behind a bigger tbs have a down side? I been all day on it, gonna clean up and call it a day. it starts well, idles very smoothly, bit of roughness on acceleration. i'll do my best again tomorrow and post my files again. actually I have a list of questions, maybe I will bring it up and post., I sure am open to any advice at this point, as much progress as I have made, I still feel overwhelmed, thanks guys - joe

[Joe V12]

hi again, ok, rather than starting back on my engine and running it, I really think I am getting ahead of myself. I am re-reading the manual again today, highlighting everything that looks important to my engine and tune and will start with the manual and engine again tomorrow. I have days of notes and questions and I think if I can get these questions answered I would be able to start back on the engine with a better understanding of what I am doing. please give me your answers and opinions on these:
In no particular order:
1. I have a good high pressure, high volume fuel pump running off the fuel pump relay, the fuel rails have a pressure regulator and a return to the fuel tank. In the long run, and tuned for more than stock horse power with more than stock fuel pressure, would I run the fuel pump by a solid state relay running PWM from the ECU with a closed loop with my fuel pressure sensor? no return?
2. I have two fans in my engine run test stand, and will have two in my install. Currently running them with switches, but ready to connect more permantly. Where is the fan control window? I have a 180 degree thermostat. What temperatures are best to turn on and off my first fan? and what outputs should I be using? And what temps are best for my second fan? And what output should I use for the second fan relay? And how do I make it work like the 1st fan with temps and hysterysis?
3. Do I need EGT sensors?
4. I have the 1990's BMW 3-wire IAC valve. running from PWM/idle out 1, and PWM out 2. can anyone tell me the correct settings for this? you know, step size, freq, %, curve(s)? also, what is it in closed loop with? rpm, or MAP?
5. Oil Control Valves. Using the test mode, on and off I can hear clicks from both. With the default 25% I can here one of them loud and clear, but no sound from the other. As I increase the %, at about 43%, I start to hear it and at 46% it sounds like the 1st one does with 25%. Is one bad? Should I try to find new ones?
6. I already fried my alternator, does anyone know the connections to the three pin connector on the back? same as a V8 Lexus, I think. I have found a wiring diagram online and like I said, I fried one internal alternator regulator already, so looking again I found more wiring diagrams that are different, now I am unsure which is right. I bought another alternator, will be here soon.
7. Just to make sure - I have two butterfly "runner length" gizmos, the butterflies are one on each side and they are closed to make the runners long? Which I think is for idle/low rpm's, and they are to open, making the runners short for high rpm. and I think I have seen 3500rpm as is when to change. Does this all sound right?
8. What is VSS?
9. in my post above, what do you think about combining my manifolds with a small airbox and running one Chevvy LS type throttle body. eliminating all the problems of equalizing two throttle bodies that I have now?
Thanks for reading all this, I hope you have good answers, I am overwhelmed with variables right now and would like to nail some of it down. I'll keep reading the manual, post more questions as they come up.

[jacky4566]

Joe sounds like you are really learning alot here.

1. If you have a return style setup already i would stick with that. return-less will invoke many headaches you dont need. Open PWM could be used to slow down the pump and reduce noise, heat, power consumption. Just ensure that pressure demands are always met. If you wanted to increase pressure you could simply install a second regulator after the stock. OR cut off the stock and use solely an aftermarket.

2. You should have your fans set to shut off at least several degrees above your rated thermostat temp. Otherwise they may turn on and not shut off until you are done driving the car. I found that most switches usually had a roughly 15F deg spread between cycling on off. Set at 200 with a 15 spread would be a good start. Second fan can be controlled with any generic output (Programmable on/off). Second fans are usually linked to A/C and not coolant control but you could set it 5-10 higher than the first.

3. Do you want EGT? EGT is used for more intensive per cylinder tuning and to make sure you dont melt turbos.

4. Try 100Hz for the PWM frequency, and 0% and 100% for the open and close limits. That ought to be a good start.

5. Not sure on the VVT. With the car running can you get a full sweep on the cams? IE. does the cam move 0-40 degrees advance with 0 - 100% duty. Else yea replace it.

6. No clue on alternators. toyodiy.com will have the part number.

7. Variable length runners are used to tune the engine yes. Short runners for high rpm. The only way to find the optimal crossover point is with dyno tuning. You want a chart like thishttp://www.integratyper.org/specs/image ... 2_vtec.gif

8. Vehicle speed sensor.

9. Not sure on the manifold. Sounds like this is going to make the engine very tall. Was there no balance tube on the stock setup?

[Joe V12]

hi Jackie, thanks for your replies:
1, ok, i'll leave it alone and just change it to a higher pressure regulator later if I want to tune for more hp.(after I know what I am doing).
2. thank you. I understand on the temperatures, but where/how do I setup a generic output to run closed loop with the temperature? what window, under what header?
3. I didn't know if I wanted it, now I know I don't - thank you
4. ha ha ha, that is the "start" I have, I was hoping someone used these before and could tell me the "finish".
5. not sure yet, I have vvt errors and don't know how to fix them. I am guessing it is stuff left over from the tune that I used to start with, that I haven't found yet, or there is something special I need to do because of the three teeth cam wheels. I just dunno. I just re-read the whole manual, gonna sit down with it and the motor tomorrow and start at the beginning (again) and see what I find.
6. if it was a chevvy I know how to wire it, someone must know Toyotas?
7. somewhere online I saw something about it and 3500rpm is sticking in my mind, so I will just set that up to start (I have em wired closed (long runners) for now in the stand. they don't seem to make a lot of difference with no load on the motor.
8.VehicleSpeedSensor - no wonder I couldn't figure it out- I don't have one in my test stand.
9. Toyota has no balance/crossover tube. they run it as two synchronized, but discreet, 6's. I have a lot of experience with multiple carbs, esp british cars jap and brit motorcycles, no good memories about synchronizing and keeping them that way. this is a 5 litre motor, close to chevy LS sizes, so many nice aftermarket single throttle bodies out there for those, and would make my life a lot easier. I could knock a little manifold/adapter out in my shop in an hour or two, I may buy one to try. I don't think it makes things get much longer, it would be in the airbox (plenum?) right after the throttle body, what it does (seems to me, but I don't know anything) is add cubic volume, which is more air mass to start accelerating as you open the TB fast, it doesn't to me seem to be that great of a percentage increase, and I live on an island with a 45mph speedlimit anyways.
I am just into this for a fun project in my retirement, should be the fastest stopsign to road speed around down here. I have a couple lambo replicas in the works, and will get more of this motor for them if I like it, so many people told me part of the real lambo experience is the v12 sound (it sounds great in the test stand, easily and distinctively different than a v8). I am really enjoying the engine, the msp3pro, and the learning curve so far. I knew nothing about fuel injection a month or so ago, I am now sure I can mechanic them no problem. I have an H1 Hummer past 15 years as my primary driver, have done all the maintenance, but didn't know what I was doing on the fuel injection stuff. It has no secrets anymore.
Thank you Jackie, for all your help

[LAV1000]

I/O settings,
In tuner studio tab "Basic Load/Setting" somewhere at the bottom there is a "Feature list showing I/O pins"
Whitin the "Boost/Advanced tab there are the "progammable on/off outputs".

If you want to use some outputs for fans make sure it is not already used in the Feature list.
Make sure to witch connector pin your output is connected.
As for switching fans use normal 20-30Amp automotive relais.
Most common practise is to switch to ground.

Don't get intimidated by al those settings, its just a four stroke engine it only needs air fuel and spark

[suberimakuri]

I/O settings,
Don't get intimidated by al those settings, its just a four stroke engine it only needs air fuel and spark

This. The ECU's can do a lot but you don't need everything.

Good on you for numbering your questions and spacing them out. It's much easier to read than before.
Some extra info:

1. Fuel return. Return style is much easier, keep with it.

2. Fans, as said above, use the additional input/outputs. Always switch the low current switch ground of a relay and not the fans themselves.

3. EGT, yeah don't bother with this for now. You don't need it.

4. PWM BMW valves... Sorry don't know. Google?

5. Sorry don't know. You may need oil pressure to move the cams, which means testing when running and I don't know if they have safety limits, sorry don't know.

6. Alternator. Standard Toyota alternators have 3 pin plug + 1 post.
3 pin plug with; battery sense (goes to bat), ign 12v (tells it to charge), lamp (goes to dash). Colours on the plug wiring may indicate what they are, sometimes the plugs themselves or the socket (on alt) have markings.
Separate 10mm post for a big fat wire going to battery for actual charging.

7. TVIS/Variable Intake Length.... this sounds about right. Trial and error to get change rpm, MS output will either ground a relay that switches the higher current valves, or perhaps a high current ms3x output can ground the actual valves. Other side of valves gets a switched 12v (probably via fuel pump relay). Worry about it later. Dyno to confirm, you will also see a change in AFR requirements on switchover if not optimal switch rpm. Engine suddenly makes more/less power...

8. VSS. Your gearbox if standard Toyota will probably have a VSS 3 pin plug output. 5v or 12v, ground, signal. It will also have a reverse light 2 pin output. This is at a minimum and there will be more fancy things and potentially multiple larger pin plugs incorporating VSS & Reverse if automatic.
The VSS just gets wheel speed into the MS ECU, which is pretty neat but not essential. More of a question is whether the auto needs controlling or hopefully you have a manual.

9. From what I've seen, if you have too long a plenum then when you back off the gas the engine keeps accelerating for a bit. This is very common in standard Toyota 4AGZE engines that have a supercharger and the throttle is before the super... making an extremely large & long intake track. The only other factor is helmholtz effect which may lower or increase your peak torque.
Considering it won't take you long to make up something, why not hack it together. Use a throttle that has a variable TPS sensor for optimal MS operation.
It could simply your life a lot and any downside of a longer track may be unnoticeable, it may even make it better as Toyota may have had space constraints that you don't?

[Joe V12]

hi suberimakuri , thanks for answering some of the questions,
1. ok, that seems to be the consensus
2. ok, I found the place I can set up the second one in my program, and now I can't find it again.
3. ok, again that seems to be the consensus
4. I been trying google, no luck, and I guess I am just frustrated with guessing values. I have decided that making that IAC run right is my goal for tomorrow morning, I think if that ran right the engine would settle down a lot more.
5. ok, yea oil pressure moves the cams, I had one moving and one not, i have to straighten out my vvt errors before i can decide if i have a bad cam oil control valve.
6. yup, i know the wires, i just don't know which of the 3 small wires are which.
7. OK, i don't imagine it would make a big change in my engine run test stand.
8, ok, i just didn't know what the acronym stood for.
9. yea, i think i am talking myself into it making a little manifold with one throttle body. MY Toyota throttle bodies are 2 1/4 inch diameter which is 5 square inches cross section, times 2 is 10, so a 10 square inch throttle body (92mm diameter) would be right to use? it's the venturi cross section area that should be equal?
thanks again for all you answers, suberimakuri and everyone.

[suberimakuri]

Sweet as.

I don't think it's exactly double when calculating flow through different diameter pipe.
Down side of going too large is low throttle openings change flow too much for engine. Jerky.
Maybe have a quick search on size vs horsepower but don't get too hung up on perfection.

Keep on keeping on, your progress in this thread is great and with such a complicated setup to begin with.

[Joe V12]

hi everyone, well, I tackled the IAC this morning. reversed the wires to the valve and undid the reverse thing in it's control window, too confusing, that double negative making a positive. got it working in the test window. I set the IAC to open loop and started the motor cold and immediately started playing with the WUE graph, moving it to get 13's on my o2 meters as the motor warmed up. so now it starts, idles (high, about 1100 rpm cold, 900 hot), idles consistent and smooth from cold (not real cold, about 85 degrees here) to OT. I also tried closed loop and that seems the same to maybe a little smoother. the whole warmup time my O2 says 12.9 to 14.0, and at OT it is mid/high 14's does move around in that range and should I have used the WUE that I did, or should I be using ASE? is there a graph somewhere that shows the relationship (in open loop mode) between IAC PWM and coolant temperature? I couldn't find it and I think I coulda trimmed that a bit and WUE a bit less, cuz the idle seemed high to me from say 150 degrees up. I re-fused my cams and the meter shows them at a fixed advance of 25 degrees or so, doesn't change as it warms up or with rpm. still get vvt1, vvt2, cam errors. if I snap the throttle open as fast as I can, there is a slight lag before the engine revs, like a bit weak accelerator pump on a carb, but a little slower snapping and it follows the throttles outstanding. sounds smooth, I do have mufflers on, so it isn't as loud as it has been. the motor twists in the stand on accelerating (a lot!). but no vibration from idle to revved and back down. it actually starts, runs, and sounds good enough to start chopping up my car. nah, I know I still got dozens of things to set . attached is end of todays files. PLEASE take a look and give me some advice, I really don't know what I am doing here. ok, I got the good idle, now what do I do next? oh, I am almost ready to bolt on the transmission, a toyota A340LE, I have a microsquirt and a quad high side driver and harnesses. does anyone have a wiring diagram for this, or just for the transmission, wire color codes, connector pin out, anything?

[Joe V12]

HI again, well, i am trying my best to plod ahead, but this cam errors stuff seems to be my biggest obstacle now.

1. I always have vvt2 error once the engine starts; vvt1 error goes on and off seemingly randomly, but "vvt1 error" on more often than "vvt1 error" off. And same for "cam error" except it is off more than on. The two cams are behaving differently causing an imbalance between left and right sides of the engine. Before i can hone this tune further I need to straighten out the cam errors.

In the "i/o pins list showing usage";

hardware pwm A - vvt2 output

hardware pwm B - vvt1 output

PWM3 - vvt1 output

in list 2 it shows:

PWM4 - vvt2output

is this right? where did "hardware pwm A " come from? Why is A vvt2? and why is B vvt1?
now if i go a different box that shows "generic pwm A " and "generic pwm B" they each show as "OFF" are they supposed to be on?

there is a "feature list that shows:

vvt1 - PWM3

vvt2 - PWM4

vvt2 input - digital freq. in 3

is all this pwm stuff right? what I don't get is the relationship between the pins with "PWM1,2,3,4,5 outputs" and "hardware PWM A, B, ..., and "Generic PWM A, B, ..." ? Am i supposed to be enabling or disabling stuff in more than 1 place?
vvt2 Input as digital freq 3 and the pwms on this list are colored active which is all what i expect but it also shows vvt1 input as cam, but it is greyed out like it is not active. is something messed up in my using the 2JZ motor as my stuff about timing?
is all this pwm stuff right? Here is probably the most important of my questions - what is the relationship between the pins with PWM1,2,3,4,5 outputs and "hardware PWM A, B,...", and "Generic PWM A, B, ..."? Am i supposed to be enabling or relating this PWM stuff in more than 1 place?

2. In the "feature list showing I/O pins" some things that I enabled are greyed out: like injector I and injector J. does this mean they are not working? If so, how do I enable them. in this list does greyed out mean "not enabled?

3. I want to make an oil pressure gauge on my dash with a reasonable scale in PSI, how do I do that? (each pressure gauge I make has a weird scale)

4. on the "MAP Sensor" settings, what is the correct one for the internal MAP sensor? same for barometer?

5. page 216 of the manual says if I have VR cam sensors I will need external conditioners. Do I need this? where do I get them? could this be my cam errors? how/where do I see my cam tooth signals?

6. Does anyone know the best frequency to run my Toyota cam oil control valves?

7. I have that Innovate DLG-1 dual O2 gauge with wideband sensors. what is the correct setting to use in the drop down menu on the afr/ego window?

8. Is there a graph somewhere that shows the relationship (in open loop mode) between IAC PWM and coolant temperature? I couldn't find it and I think I coulda trimmed that a bit and WUE a bit less, cuz the idle seemed high to me from say 150 degrees up.

9. I would like to idle the motor lower after it is warmed up, but don't know where I should do that. it is idling about 1100 rpm.

10. I am almost ready to bolt on the transmission, a toyota 30-42LE, I have a microsquirt and a quad high side driver and harnesses. does anyone have a wiring diagram for this, or for the transmission connector pin outs? I think it is the same as 340LE, 341LE, 342LE, but am unsure. I don't know the wiring of the 10 pin connector that connects to the solenoids. I guess that the two pin connector near the tail is the Vehicle Speed Sensor, and I think the two pin connector near the bellhousing is some kind of lock? I have figured out the connector near the shifter with a continuity tester, so it is no problem, but I don't know how to figure out the solenoid wires. I have ohmed it out, and I think I have found two solenoids' connections that the other side of them goes to ground (pins 5 and 10), and I think I have three solenoids that I have both sides of the coil's wires (2&7, 3&8, 4&9). and I have two wires that don't show continuity to anywhere (1&6). can anyone help me with any info at all on this?

Thank you in advance for any help at all with any of these questions.

[LAV1000]

Can't help you out, but for the transmission questions it might be better to post your questions over here.
http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=138

[Joe V12]

thank you - will do

[Xenocide101]

Joe V12, any updates on the questions you last asked? I'm dying to know what you found out!

[Jon Gandy]

thank you - will do

Also trying to get a copy of that manual. Is that possible?