eliotmansfield wrote:Renns, what sensor did you use for the fuel pressure monitoring? - has some cheap honeywell sensors come back out?
I'm running a honeywell sensor that was sold on ebay a while back. It requires 5v supply, and sends a 0-5v signal back, to interfacing is easy. I'm splicing into the TPS harness for power.
Roger.
1979 Mazda RX-7, running MSnSExtra hi-res 09c for fuel and spark control on a turbocharged, intercooled, and (of course!) injected 13B rotary.
sperry wrote:I made my surge tank out of a small oxygen bottle and just tapped and sealed the fittings and never saw a drop of gas!
you could use a propane bottle from autozone or something but make sure you fill it up with water before you pop the saftey valve out
total project cost wil be 10 bucks for bottle and fittings
Do you have a website about this? This sounds like about the most cost effective way for a DIY surge tank yet!
I'm not confident enough in my welding skills to make my own.
1995 Ford Probe GT ~ Megasquirted & Boosted
275whp/242wtq @ 5.5psi ---- 317whp/287wtq @ 8.5psi
^^^ (thanks to MSnS-E and dyno tuning by me!)
2003 GSX1300R (Hayabusa)
I would imagine the inside of those water filters aren't just plastic. Decent idea for a web page.
I e-mailed the author of it and asked how it's run since installation and if he still uses it. Also asked if he'd do anything different next time around.
1995 Ford Probe GT ~ Megasquirted & Boosted
275whp/242wtq @ 5.5psi ---- 317whp/287wtq @ 8.5psi
^^^ (thanks to MSnS-E and dyno tuning by me!)
2003 GSX1300R (Hayabusa)
I also have a surge tank in my 85 previously carbed RX-7 (seems to be a few 1st gen rotor heads in this thread ). When I first got the car running I didnt have one and the car would buck and surge like crazy 1st trip around the block. Only took a week before I decided to put one in and I used the same info off of sds website. Im running a large carter pump to fill the surge tank and have the return from the regulator going back to the surge tank. The carter pump is kinda loud for me though but its been going for 4 years and I drive the car every day so I havent touched it. Now im thinking about doing what a buddy of mine did and switch to a bosch volvo FI pump to fill the tank much quiter.
-------------------- m2f -------------------- This post is at: http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?p=135565#135565 -------------------- m2f --------------------
And before anyone tells me that in http://www.sdsefi.com/techsurge.htm the fuel bleeding out of the fuel pressure reg is going back into the swirl pot- forget it! After 5 mins in traffic the recirculating fuel gets so hot it starts vaporizing in the lines, its a bad solution which I fell for when I saw a similar drawing on another website. I suppose you could add a fuel cooler but then you're buying 2 fuel pumps a swirl pot and a fuel cooler to save you doing it right! Jon
-------------------- m2f -------------------- This post is at: http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?p=135510#135510 -------------------- m2f --------------------
jonfx4com wrote: And before anyone tells me that... Too late!
1979 Mazda RX-7, running MSnSExtra029L for fuel and spark control on a turbocharged, intercooled, and (of course!) injected 13B rotary.
-------------------- m2f -------------------- This post is at: http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?p=135511#135511 -------------------- m2f --------------------
Posted by email.
1979 Mazda RX-7, running MSnSExtra hi-res 09c for fuel and spark control on a turbocharged, intercooled, and (of course!) injected 13B rotary.
eliotmansfield wrote: Renns, what sensor did you use for the fuel pressure monitoring? - has some cheap honeywell sensors come back out?
I'm running a honeywell sensor that was sold on ebay a while back. It requires 5v supply, and sends a 0-5v signal back, to interfacing is easy. I'm splicing into the TPS harness for power.
Roger.
1979 Mazda RX-7, running MSnSExtra029L for fuel and spark control on a turbocharged, intercooled, and
(of course!) injected 13B rotary.
I tried a facet gold top low pressure fuel pump to fill a surge tank before the HP fuel pump and it was a hopeless case. The flow rate of the HP pump was way higher than the LP pump and the surge tank was empty within seconds of the HP pump running up. Result was a dead HP pump. You need to look at the flow rating of the LP pump and compare it with the flow rate of the HP pump when its holding 43PSI. The calculation is surprising, you will need a hell of a LP pump to keep up with the HP unit. I suggest you mod the tank and fit an in tank unit, it will save you lots a grief later in my experience. If you look here http://www.fuelsystem.co.uk/new_page_8.htm you will see that my HP pump holds 3 BAR at around 3 litres a minute but a facet competition LP fuel pump can only pump 35 Gals / Hour which is 2.6 Litres / Minute. Result is an empty swirl pot! I suppose if you find a BIG LP pump it can be made to work but then your paying money to bodge the job when less money will do it right. Jon Jon
-------------------- m2f -------------------- This post is at: http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?p=135506#135506 -------------------- m2f --------------------
Hi Roger, yes that was how I killed my first HP pump, they don't like pumpimg scalding hot fuel and vapour much, in fact they quickly refuse to do it anymore! I dont doubt that there are folks out there getting away with it but I could not recomend it to someone setting up a new system after already costing myself a small fortune trying the "shortcut methods". Jon
-------------------- m2f -------------------- This post is at: http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?p=135512#135512 -------------------- m2f --------------------
I killed a couple of pumps as well trying to get the surge tank to work. Eventually I just cut a hole in the top of my fuel tank and used a Honda Civic in-tank pump with a custom top plate (I needed it to be rectangular). Cheers, Simon
-------------------- m2f -------------------- This post is at: http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?p=135562#135562 -------------------- m2f --------------------
eliotmansfield wrote: Renns, what sensor did you use for the fuel pressure monitoring? - has some cheap honeywell sensors come back out? I'm running a honeywell sensor that was sold on ebay a while back. It requires 5v supply, and sends a 0-5v signal back, to interfacing is easy. I'm splicing into the TPS harness for power. Roger.
1979 Mazda RX-7, running MSnSExtra029L for fuel and spark control on a turbocharged, intercooled, and (of course!) injected 13B rotary.
-------------------- m2f -------------------- This post is at: http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?p=135628#135628 -------------------- m2f --------------------
Posted by email.
1979 Mazda RX-7, running MSnSExtra hi-res 09c for fuel and spark control on a turbocharged, intercooled, and (of course!) injected 13B rotary.
sperry wrote: I made my surge tank out of a small oxygen bottle and just tapped and sealed the fittings and never saw a drop of gas! you could use a propane bottle from autozone or something but make sure you fill it up with water before you pop the saftey valve out total project cost wil be 10 bucks for bottle and fittings Do you have a website about this? This sounds like about the most cost effective way for a DIY surge tank yet! I'm not confident enough in my welding skills to make my own.
1995 Ford Probe GT ~ Megasquirted & Boosted 275whp/242wtq @ 5.5psi ---- 317whp/287wtq @ 8.5psi ^^^ (thanks to MSnS-E and dyno tuning by me!) 2003 GSX1300R (Hayabusa)
-------------------- m2f -------------------- This post is at: http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?p=135635#135635 -------------------- m2f --------------------
Posted by email.
1995 Ford Probe GT ~ Megasquirted & Boosted
275whp/242wtq @ 5.5psi ---- 317whp/287wtq @ 8.5psi
^^^ (thanks to MSnS-E and dyno tuning by me!)
2003 GSX1300R (Hayabusa)
jonfx4com wrote: I tried a facet gold top low pressure fuel pump to fill a surge tank before the HP fuel pump and it was a hopeless case. The flow rate of the HP pump was way higher than the LP pump and the surge tank was empty within seconds of the HP pump running up. Result was a dead HP pump. Jon, How was your return connected? If your return line from the regulator also goes back to the surge tank, then the low pressure pump only needs to provide the fuel consumed by the engine. Any fuel not consumed is returned for the efi pump to send through again. Roger.
1979 Mazda RX-7, running MSnSExtra029L for fuel and spark control on a turbocharged, intercooled, and (of course!) injected 13B rotary.
-------------------- m2f -------------------- This post is at: http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?p=135509#135509 -------------------- m2f --------------------
Posted by email.
1979 Mazda RX-7, running MSnSExtra hi-res 09c for fuel and spark control on a turbocharged, intercooled, and (of course!) injected 13B rotary.
jonfx4com wrote: I tried a facet gold top low pressure fuel pump to fill a surge tank before the HP fuel pump and it was a hopeless case. The flow rate of the HP pump was way higher than the LP pump and the surge tank was empty within seconds of the HP pump running up. Result was a dead HP pump. Jon, How was your return connected? If your return line from the regulator also goes back to the surge tank, then the low pressure pump only needs to provide the fuel consumed by the engine. Any fuel not consumed is returned for the efi pump to send through again. Roger.
1979 Mazda RX-7, running MSnSExtra029L for fuel and spark control on a turbocharged, intercooled, and (of course!) injected 13B rotary.
-------------------- m2f -------------------- This post is at: http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?p=135509#135509 -------------------- m2f --------------------
Posted by email.
1979 Mazda RX-7, running MSnSExtra hi-res 09c for fuel and spark control on a turbocharged, intercooled, and (of course!) injected 13B rotary.
jonfx4com wrote:And before anyone tells me that in http://www.sdsefi.com/techsurge.htm the fuel bleeding out of the fuel pressure reg is going back into the swirl pot- forget it! After 5 mins in traffic the recirculating fuel gets so hot it starts vaporizing in the lines
I understand the argument here. However.. if the fuel was vaporizing (I read this as the fuel turning into a gas), wouldn't it float to the top of the surge tank and return to the fuel tank?
1995 Ford Probe GT ~ Megasquirted & Boosted
275whp/242wtq @ 5.5psi ---- 317whp/287wtq @ 8.5psi
^^^ (thanks to MSnS-E and dyno tuning by me!)
2003 GSX1300R (Hayabusa)
I got a response from the water filter web page owner. He said he's had it on his car for 3 years now without any problems other than one small leak that developed on one of the top fittings.
As for doing it again, he said he would definitely have no problem using the same technique next time around. However, he's seen a water/fuel separator for larger trucks in the local parts store which looks more "carish" and has threaded IN/OUT ports to make the install even simpler. Does anyone know what this fuel/water separator is called so I can go check them out?
1995 Ford Probe GT ~ Megasquirted & Boosted
275whp/242wtq @ 5.5psi ---- 317whp/287wtq @ 8.5psi
^^^ (thanks to MSnS-E and dyno tuning by me!)
2003 GSX1300R (Hayabusa)
). When I first got the car running I didnt have one and the car would buck and surge like crazy 1st trip around the block. Only took a week before I decided to put one in and I used the same info off of sds website. Im running a large carter pump to fill the surge tank and have the return from the regulator going back to the surge tank. The carter pump is kinda loud for me though but its been going for 4 years and I drive the car every day so I havent touched it. Now im thinking about doing what a buddy of mine did and switch to a bosch volvo FI pump to fill the tank much quiter.
