1000cc injectors? Can these be drivable?

olsonjus · Post by **olsonjus** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 10:14 pm

I'm running a big turbo setup that requires me to run 1000cc injectors per cylinder. How driveable will my car be with these injectors. I was going to do 2 sets of injectors, but I really dont have the room to fit it all.

Will I be able to drive my car every day with such large injectors on ms2 with its flyback board? I dont want to hate my car because it stalls and runs pig rich at idle all the time.

Regards.
Justin

whittlebeast · Post by **whittlebeast** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 5:19 am

They will be fine as long as its a 4 liter motor. We need a little more info like displsacment, boost, HP, min and max RPM, ms2 or Extra, is staged injection an option, will it ever have to pass a polution inspection.....

My two cylinder 800cc motor has a pair of 800s and it idles fine....... Oh did i forget to point out that its a two stroke that idles at 3000 rpm and doesn't start making any power till 6000 RPM and has to run MAF to find the power band hit. Thats my point

AW

efahl · Post by **efahl** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 10:59 am

whittlebeast wrote:They will be fine as long as its a 4 liter motor. We need a little more info like displsacment, boost, HP, min and max RPM, ms2 or Extra, is staged injection an option, will it ever have to pass a polution inspection.....

I'll guess and see how close I can get:

1) 2222 cc, 5 cyl, 5x1000 cc injectors
2) 30 psig boost
3) 650 hp
4) Idle = 850 rpm, redline = 7500 rpm
5) MS-II
6) No inspections

Close?

olsonjus · Post by **olsonjus** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 11:24 am

efahl wrote:
whittlebeast wrote:They will be fine as long as its a 4 liter motor. We need a little more info like displsacment, boost, HP, min and max RPM, ms2 or Extra, is staged injection an option, will it ever have to pass a polution inspection.....
I'll guess and see how close I can get:

1) 2222 cc, 5 cyl, 5x1000 cc injectors
2) 30 psig boost
3) 650 hp
4) Idle = 850 rpm, redline = 7500 rpm
5) MS-II
6) No inspections

Close?

1)2365cc, 5cyl, 5*1000cc injectors
2)35-40psig boost
3)750 hp
4) Idle =850(this would be great), Redline = 8000+ rpm
5) MS-II
6) No inspection

whittlebeast · Post by **whittlebeast** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 11:54 am

Eric

Impressive guess..but I think you cheated

AW

whittlebeast · Post by **whittlebeast** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 5:24 pm

I am getting a pw of about 1.7 sec at a 1300 idle. This would be a slight inconvinence considdering the ride the a quatro could deliver. With ms2 it should work. The reqfuel ends up at 2.9 (I happen to run a reqfuel of 3.8 on the ski). Per RC Engineering, I am not even shure that 5 1000s are even big enough. I would rather deal with a bad idle than run out on top. I assume you know all about rising pressure fuel pressure regulators. I would try it

Post by **jsmcortina** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 5:31 pm

MS2 has the pulse width resolution to be happy with 1.7ms at idle.

MS1 base code or MS1/Extra do not offer enough resolution to idle well with such a low pulsewidth.

James

olsonjus · Post by **olsonjus** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 9:37 pm

People get 1600cc injectors to idle with the AEM injector driver box. Would one of these be of any use for me when using MS2??

http://store.summitracing.com/default.a ... 115+400407

MegaDave · Post by **MegaDave** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 12:02 am

olsonjus wrote:People get 1600cc injectors to idle with the AEM injector driver box. Would one of these be of any use for me when using MS2??

http://store.summitracing.com/default.a ... 115+400407

Whats the idle speed that these people have with 1600cc injectors?

This might be a better link to the injector driver box from AEM that olsonjus mentioned:
http://store.summitracing.com/default.a ... toview=sku

olsonjus · Post by **olsonjus** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 9:23 am

Yeah, thats what I was trying to link to. People with supras are idling 1600cc injectors at 1100 rpm. 13:1 A/F ratio.

"My car has 1600cc's, idles at 1100rpm, 13.0 a/f. No injector driver and I have enough fuel with three Walbro's and the 1600's for over 1300rwhp with ease.
__________________
Ryan Woon
1400rwhp+ 1000ft/lbs+ Torque No NOS
Best 1/4 8.99@165.7mph
Best Mph 167.88mph
Best 60ft 1.38
3.4L Equipped!
3550lbs at the Scales!!!
480-626-2803
www.WOTM.com
Undefeated against all 6spd Supras "

Quote:
Originally Posted by WOTM
My car has 1600cc's, idles at 1100rpm, 13.0 a/f. No injector driver and I have enough fuel with three Walbro's and the 1600's for over 1300rwhp with ease.

Same here but if you drive your supra around town in stop and go traffic you will kill the plugs very quickly with the 1600's... I installed the AEM injector driver and haven't had this problem and can idle at 14.7-15.0 A/F with no problems at 1100rpm.

http://www.supraforums.com/forum/showth ... driver+box

UNTAMND · Post by **UNTAMND** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 9:08 pm

I hope that the 1000cc injectors can be tuned to idle acceptably, I will be using them soon. Im thinking baout switching to MS because my 94 Mustang will be seeing 15psi and probly 100hp nitrous. Im thinking about possably doing a stroker kit, but we will see.

Any luck with the tuning olsonjus?

olsonjus · Post by **olsonjus** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 9:46 pm

My setup isn't together. My car is a on a long term build up. Going on 4 years now. Somebody shoot me

UNTAMND · Post by **UNTAMND** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 9:25 am

olsonjus wrote:My setup isn't together. My car is a on a long term build up. Going on 4 years now. Somebody shoot me

If I put you out of your misery, can I have your car for the service.

What are you doing to the car, why the long build time......and dont say money.

Im building a potent 5liter for my 94, and ill be using 100lb injectors(1000cc) Im in hopes that they will be able to get turned down enough to run smoothly. I may go with a 347 with 8:1 compression, and aim for about 350-400whp. Then im going to add 15psi, and hope for big numbers.

olsonjus · Post by **olsonjus** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 9:44 am

Well its money and indecision. I keep changing the setup and trying to make it the best I can afford. I just got out of college 6 months ago so I have some cash flow now. The project should be up and running this spring.

Justin

olsonjus · Post by **olsonjus** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 4:28 pm

I'm looking at either delphi or siemens injectors from www.racetronix.com

Which are better injectors?

Justin

UNTAMND · Post by **UNTAMND** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 9:18 pm

olsonjus wrote:Which are better injectors delphi or siemens?

Well, im not really sure. Depending on which nozzel style ther is on each of them, i would say one nozzel would be better for low fuel pressure then the other. Do some research, others will have an opinion.

olsonjus · Post by **olsonjus** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 10:22 am

Ball and Spring vs Disc:

Disc Type Injectors
The appearance of a disc injector can be like that of a pintle type injector and internally they are also similar. The main difference is on the discharge end of the injector. The nozzle can have one or more orifices or tubes through which the fuel is discharged. The disc is spring loaded against its seat. The disc is large enough to cover all of the orifices or tubes to provide a seal for the fuel. When the injector is energized, the disc is lifted and fuel sprays from the injector.

The main advantage of both ball and disc type injectors is that they are less likely to have deposits restrict fuel flow from the injector than pintle types.[/b]

olsonjus · Post by **olsonjus** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 10:23 am

5. Valve design
There are three basic valve designs used with variations on each: pintle, disk, and ball.

The pintle-type valve is the earliest design but still popular. And it is the design used on our cars. The solenoid lifts the pintle out of an orifice to release fuel. The problems with the pintle design include increased chance of clogging in the small orifice area, slower response time because of heavier armatures used to lift the pintle, and reduced service life.

The ball-type injector uses a ball (actually half a sphere) to seal the metering orifice, rather than a pintle. This allows the use of a lighter armature and so response time is faster than for pintle types. There is also less wear for a longer service life. The orifice can be designed with multiple openings for a wider spray pattern plus more fuel can be delivered for a given drive time.

The disk-type injector eliminates the armature and the solenoid acts directly on the flat disk through the core of the injector body. The flat disk rests on a seat that has an orifice in it. This arrangement is even lighter than the ball-type for an even faster response time. This disk and seat design also results in less deposit build up at the orifice and longer service life.

If upgrading our injectors, consider ball or disk type injectors because the faster response time of the injector (over the pintle style) should partially offset the lack of peak-hold circuitry in our setup.

S.Bretz · Post by **S.Bretz** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 9:57 am

Ypu should be able to run them. I am using a set of 1000cc injectors on my saturn. Pulse withd idle is from 1.000-1.100ms. They are a bit of a pain in the arse to get running if you have never worked with a megasuirt, but hey, I like punishment.

What I did was get it running...no matter how bad it was, even if I had to hold my foot on the gas pedal. After its running, you can go to your VE table (the spread shett page. not the tunign page) and kept transforming the table by .8 until the fuel levels came down until it ran stronger and stronger. Once it ran strong enough, the o2 started to heat up to proper temp and I could see what was going on.