My wife just doesn't understand

lukep · Post by **lukep** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 5:49 am

Please help me with my dilemma, no matter how much I explain it my wife she just can't (or perhaps just doesn't want to) give me any advice.

I have just built a MS I on a V3 board. It will be going onto a 350 SBC with newly installed Vortec heads sitting in a 68 El Camino. I live in Hong Kong but the vehicle is in Winnipeg, Canada at my Father in Laws house, so I only get to work on it ocassionally when visiting the Prairies, hence I have a lot of time to plan and dream and not a lot to actually do some fun stuff.

As the project is at an early stage I am torn between buying a used TPI setup and the Scroggin Dickey Vortec lower manifold, or going the modified Single Plane manifold DIY throttle body etc etc.

I am not made of money but as I see it the cost may end up working out about the same, however if I buy a used TPI setup I will get all the ancillaries such as Rails, Pressure Regulator, IAC, TPS, injectors et al in a comprehensive package as opposed to a total DIY affair (yes I do realise the spirit of MS is DIY)

As I understand it the TPI will provide superior torque down low compared to a Single Plane manifold, which may be beneficial on a 3600 lb vehicle which is still running the original Powerglide (don't even get me started on 4 speed Overdrives).

Has anybody followed a similar route or have any advice?

TIA

Luke

Big Creek · Post by **Big Creek** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 6:15 pm

I may be a little off base here but you mentioned you are using Vortec heads. I don't think the TPI manifold will bolt up to these. They use an odd silicone gasket and only 8 bolts. The TPI's I am familiar with use the traditional 12 bolts. Some in the past have adapted by drilling and tapping the heads but the ports don't line up correctly. I think you need to use a Vortec manifold and adapt from there.

Todd

krazykannuck · Post by **krazykannuck** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 9:30 pm

The aftermarket still supports tpi.

http://chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/56858/

it might be a bit costly....

ChevelleFan · Post by **ChevelleFan** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 10:12 pm

Luke, I'm running a '70 Chevelle. (3700 lbs with me) Like you, I was going to go with a TPI, but after doing lots and lots of reading, I came to the same conclusion as Lance -- that it just wasn't going to be enough for my 406. I have a bunch of TPI parts sitting around waiting for a good project.

The Scoggin-Dickey Vortec TPI base is a spendy piece at around $400, considering you'll still need a plenum, runners, throttle body, and fuel rails. For not much more ($550-ish, with rails & adj. regulator) you could get a Vortec Holley Stealth Ram, although you'll still need a TPI (or aftermarket) thottle-body.

Since you only have a powerglide and a 350, TPI might be the best choice for you. I certainly wouldn't go with a converted single-plane. You're gonna need all the torque you can get! You didn't mention your cam, which will factor in there too. I'm assumiung that it is somewhat stock.

The TPI will also allow you to run a small or large cap HEI -- the Stealth Ram requires a small-cap.

I'm really, really happy with my conversion to Megasquirt. I'll never go back to a carb.

Check out my success story. I tried to put as much relavent info as I could in there, especially since you're also dealing with a GM A-body.

-Dave

krazykannuck · Post by **krazykannuck** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 4:05 pm

As for me, I too understand the heavy car/tight budget. I have a 55 chevy that I've MS'ed and I'll never go back to my carb...

I also looked at the TPI setup but found it expensive.
The cheapest setup yet that I've found is TBI. I know it's not as good
as port injection but you can get an external pump,sensors and TB from
a junk yard cheap. The hardest part of your conversion would be a fuel return line. I'm running basicly the same setup but got a holley TBI.

The nice thing about this TBI is that it uses a square flange adapter
so you can use an inexpensive manifold. You would need this adapter when using a GM TB, avail through holley. This then gets you into the diy efi world cheap, and allows you to experiment.

GotDart · Post by **GotDart** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 10:38 pm

You can get a Weiand Vortec EFI Stealth Ram Intake Manifold for only $350 at Summit Racing.

ChevelleFan · Post by **ChevelleFan** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 5:27 am

GotDart wrote:You can get a Weiand Vortec EFI Stealth Ram Intake Manifold for only $350 at Summit Racing.

True, but by the time you add in the Holleyyh-specific fuels rails and adjustable regulator, you'll be up to $550.

I'm only a few weeks away from that vortec Stealth Ram and some new Edelbrock E-Tec 200s.. I can't wait!

-Dave

chris_the_rat · Post by **chris_the_rat** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 4:22 pm

I have a 350 in a camaro -74 with TPI and MS&E on the original Z28 engine. Not happy! Att around 4000rpm the fun ends. I have a single plane intake I soon will be mounting the injectors in and a holley 650 as TB. I will prabobly have it ready some time this spring. No hurry, snow is deep here in sweden....

m0ntecarloss · Post by **m0ntecarloss** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:54 pm

Just another thought on the vortec head/efi intake setup...

http://www.sdpc2000.com/catalog/2657/pr ... ronics.htm

Pricey but comes with everything new. This is what I will be runnin on my 355. Priced out separately at gmpartsdirect.com it is insane. Course I have found all of the solutions for vortec heads end up costly in the end

Heres a pic of it from GM's crate engine. Looks sweet!

http://www.sdpc2000.com/images/products ... 535580.jpg

lukep · Post by **lukep** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 12:16 am

Thanks Guys for all the input. As M0ntecarloss put it anything Vortec ends up more expensive. Kinda wishing I bought some Edelbrock Aluminium heads instead. Oh Well. ChevelleFan I am very keen to hear about your results. Keep us posted

Luke

blackmonte355 · Post by **blackmonte355** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 9:01 pm

lukep,

Build the single plane with port injection, you WILL NOT be short on low and midrange torque.

Here is my set-up:

1) 455 Buick
2) T/A Performance sp-1 highrise alum. intake, homemade conversion to MPFI
3) home made "airbox" 6"x5"
4) BBK TPI 58mm throttle body
5) Megasquirt MS-1 v2.2 board

Before I built the FI for the engine, which is in an 86 Regal by the way,
I was using an Edlebrock Q-jet series carb. Now with the FI, it feels like I bolted on a 6-71 blower. Kind of an extreme comparison, but it's the only way I can put into words how low and midrange torque have increased.
As for top end is concerned, It has also increased, but I have not been able to get to the track to test it. I have 1/4 times of the car with the carb, and I ran a 12.83 @107mpg with 2.75 gears in the 9" rear.
My B&M converter with the carb would stall at about 2300, now with the FI it goes to 3000 and then some. I say then some because just today I was stalling hard for the first time to see how high it would go, well I got it to 3000rpm and the rear u-joint broke, mmm-kkkkk. So now it's time to upgrade the driveshaft, u-joints, and yokes.

So screw the TPI manifold, build a MPFI with a single plane intake.

Dean