1999 Saturn SC2 Ignition Install

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1999 Saturn SC2 Ignition Install

Postby bluetrepidation » Thu Mar 23, 2006 2:14 pm

OK is this information correct? I want to verify before I actually do the final install:

The info for GM DIS is confusing and scattered all over so this is what I know so far....

Hardware setup:
-Megasquirt II with optic isolator ignition input selected and high current ignition port setup with 1000k ohm 5 volt pull up circuit to protect the CPU.
-Saturn OB I GM DIS module.

Software settings:
-Megasquirt-II.ini:
Max Dwell limit reset to 25.00

-Megatune:
Ignition Input Capture: Rising Edge
Cranking Trigger: Trigger Rise
Coil Charging Scheme: Standard Coil Charge
Spark Output: Going High (Inverted)
Max Spark Duration: 25.0
Max Dwell Duration: 25.0

Now should the spark output be "Going high" since I installed the high current coil driver in my hardware setup? Most setups I see connect the CPU port directly to the ignition module.

Ok just trying to keep things straight before I finally install this!

kudos,
A.J.
1999 Saturn SC2 1.9L DOHC 4 cyl NA
MS II Blue Processor w/ 2.686t5 Beta Code
V3 PCB
MegaTune 2.25
Innovate LC1 WB O2 Sensor
OBD I Saturn Wasted Spark DIS
w/ Cooling Fan and IAC
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Postby bluetrepidation » Fri Mar 24, 2006 4:38 pm

Anyone?
1999 Saturn SC2 1.9L DOHC 4 cyl NA
MS II Blue Processor w/ 2.686t5 Beta Code
V3 PCB
MegaTune 2.25
Innovate LC1 WB O2 Sensor
OBD I Saturn Wasted Spark DIS
w/ Cooling Fan and IAC
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Re: 1999 Saturn SC2 Ignition Install

Postby Lordprimate » Sat Mar 25, 2006 1:15 am

bluetrepidation wrote: high current ignition port setup with 1000k ohm 5 volt pull up circuit to protect the CPU.


I pretty sure you just have to jumper the board for Hall sensor use ... you dont need a pull up circut....

Well i dont..

93 SC2

I didnt have to swap ign modules...

Just to make sure your fully aware you have to wire the VR(crank sensor) to the ICM. and so on... but yea... anywho ...

I didnt think about changing the max dwell to 25 in the .ini file... hmm maybe that would get rid of my surge....
MS-II Blue V3 PCB
MT 2.25 Final Release w/ MS2/Extra 2.0.1 Firmware
In a 1.9L 93 Saturn SC2 w/ GM DIS.....

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/741154
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Postby bluetrepidation » Sun Mar 26, 2006 4:36 pm

OH really!? Interesting. So you had to wire your hall sensor directly to your ignition control module? OK now I'm extra confused. Let me clarify by asking you if your ignition control module looks like this?

http://www.electronicdisposition.com/OBISaturnGMDIS.JPG

A.J.
1999 Saturn SC2 1.9L DOHC 4 cyl NA
MS II Blue Processor w/ 2.686t5 Beta Code
V3 PCB
MegaTune 2.25
Innovate LC1 WB O2 Sensor
OBD I Saturn Wasted Spark DIS
w/ Cooling Fan and IAC
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Postby Lordprimate » Sun Mar 26, 2006 8:59 pm

yea, I have that unit, a 91-95 ICM(ignition control module)

Sorry i wasnt trying to confuse you

the ICM that Saturns use from 91-95 act just like a Hall sensor... So there is no need to wire a Hall sensor in ...

I just ment you set up the MS pcb board like you would for a hall/optical sensor.

On my v3 PCB the builder put both circuts on ... and I just selected the hall curcut with Jumpers...

Im not TOO shure about the 99's check but from 96-98 i believe that they re routed the VR sensor input to the ECU instead of the ICM...

Hence why you have to use the 91-95 ICM and Wire the VR sensor to it... and a couple other wires to the MS...

I dont know if you saw this thread but it may be helpful for you ... IM running a v3 MS2 so i just used this to get a Base to jump off of...
http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?t=7142&highlight=dis

And this is one I started after getting Fuel and Spark running on my 93 SC2 ...

http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?t=15554&highlight=saturn++dis

but im sure you already read this page...
http://www.megasquirt.info/ms2/GM_DIS.htm

Im not sure if you check another sight out that MOST LIKELY has Alot of good info and people that could help you further... check here at TSN

http://www.turbosaturns.net/
MS-II Blue V3 PCB
MT 2.25 Final Release w/ MS2/Extra 2.0.1 Firmware
In a 1.9L 93 Saturn SC2 w/ GM DIS.....

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/741154
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Postby bluetrepidation » Sun Mar 26, 2006 10:55 pm

Whew ok. Yeah any 96 and newer Saturn has the hall sensor wired directly to the ECU. I thought for a second you got a OB II ignition control module to work! Now I am wired for the hall setup. Where I differ is I do not have JS10 jumpered to IGN. I hooked up the high current coil driver circuit with a 5 volt pull up resistor so I could protect my processor port somewhat. So you think I don't need the pull up resistor? Otherwise thanks for the link on using an LED for the bypass circuit. This is what I was planning on figuring out next.

A.J.
1999 Saturn SC2 1.9L DOHC 4 cyl NA
MS II Blue Processor w/ 2.686t5 Beta Code
V3 PCB
MegaTune 2.25
Innovate LC1 WB O2 Sensor
OBD I Saturn Wasted Spark DIS
w/ Cooling Fan and IAC
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Postby tebriel » Mon Mar 27, 2006 1:00 pm

are you using the MS2? The ms2 has it built it, so you wouldn't need to wire that in. I don't think it would hurt to have it however.
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Postby bluetrepidation » Tue Apr 04, 2006 5:59 am

tebriel wrote:are you using the MS2? The ms2 has it built it, so you wouldn't need to wire that in. I don't think it would hurt to have it however.


I know the processor port has built in pull up but I'm using the high current coil driver circuit on the V3 board to drive my ICM. This doesn't have any kind of pull up does it? Anyway it's added but I'm still not sure when kind of output setting I need to use. To invert or not to invert?


A.J.
1999 Saturn SC2 1.9L DOHC 4 cyl NA
MS II Blue Processor w/ 2.686t5 Beta Code
V3 PCB
MegaTune 2.25
Innovate LC1 WB O2 Sensor
OBD I Saturn Wasted Spark DIS
w/ Cooling Fan and IAC
User avatar
bluetrepidation
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Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2005 9:24 pm
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Postby tebriel » Tue Apr 04, 2006 8:34 am

is there any reason why you're choosing to drive the coil?

wait, are you driving the coils or are you driving the ICM? You don't need a pull up when you are controlling the ICM. You just hook your tach signal from the ICM to the MS, then on MS2 put pin 36 to the EST in wire on the ICM. Then you just need to worry about the bypass signal to the ICM.

you read turbosaturns.net or plastikracing.net? they both have posts about doing this :)
-teb
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Postby bluetrepidation » Sat Apr 08, 2006 3:46 pm

OK well the above setup officially works! I don't know if I needed the pull up resistor but it is in there and my processor port is protected so I'm happy. I also got a spare output setup for my cooling fan and my bypass wire on my ICM setup. All works. Now the car did surge but shutting off EGO correction fixed that. The cooling fan kicking on causes a bit of load but hitting the brake lights doesn't seem to affect anything. So far so good.
1999 Saturn SC2 1.9L DOHC 4 cyl NA
MS II Blue Processor w/ 2.686t5 Beta Code
V3 PCB
MegaTune 2.25
Innovate LC1 WB O2 Sensor
OBD I Saturn Wasted Spark DIS
w/ Cooling Fan and IAC
User avatar
bluetrepidation
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Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2005 9:24 pm
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Postby S.Bretz » Thu May 25, 2006 4:12 pm

Setting the dwell to 25ms caused me nothing but problems. I am having good luck with it at .5-1.0 ms. ANythin over that and I get surging up top.

I have also noticed that the stock ICM pulls timing between 6750 and 7200. I guess it was built into the ICM so that the timeing would be pulled as the fuel cut kicked in.

Set the max spark duration from 1.5 to 2.0 ms, the shorter the duration, the hotter the sprak flame. 1.5 seem so be a good number.

I'm gonna try another ICM off another car and see if that helps out any, but as of right now, the 95 sucks between that spot mentioned earlier.
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Postby bluetrepidation » Thu May 25, 2006 8:01 pm

6750 and 7200 huh? Well that stinks. I've been running 25ms dwell for some times and I'm not having any surging issues. But I don't have a turbo either. I guess you got your engine rebuilt? Spark duration? Doesn't the ICM handle that? Or does this setting still have some kind of effect?

A.J.

S.Bretz wrote:Setting the dwell to 25ms caused me nothing but problems. I am having good luck with it at .5-1.0 ms. ANythin over that and I get surging up top.

I have also noticed that the stock ICM pulls timing between 6750 and 7200. I guess it was built into the ICM so that the timeing would be pulled as the fuel cut kicked in.

Set the max spark duration from 1.5 to 2.0 ms, the shorter the duration, the hotter the sprak flame. 1.5 seem so be a good number.

I'm gonna try another ICM off another car and see if that helps out any, but as of right now, the 95 sucks between that spot mentioned earlier.
1999 Saturn SC2 1.9L DOHC 4 cyl NA
MS II Blue Processor w/ 2.686t5 Beta Code
V3 PCB
MegaTune 2.25
Innovate LC1 WB O2 Sensor
OBD I Saturn Wasted Spark DIS
w/ Cooling Fan and IAC
User avatar
bluetrepidation
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Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2005 9:24 pm
Location: Youngstown Ohio

Postby S.Bretz » Thu May 25, 2006 8:22 pm

Reporting back:

After the last post, I finally got around to messing with it. I was messing with the dwell a bid to see if the ICM would do its own dwell and not need the MS signal...well it DOES need a siganl...so I had turn the dwell up from .5 to 1, then installed another ICM from a 94. As soon as I cranked it up, it misfired like crazy. It stalled a few times, and then while it was running I turned the dwell up to 2.5ms....BIG improvemet. I left and noticed at low rpm and full throttle, it was still missing. SO I bumped it up to 25ms and it rean great the rest of the way home.

Only problem is that I still have a problem with 67ishh hundred to 7200.

I'm gonna pull a data log and makes sure its good on fuel and stuff. I noticed with the current ICM, it idled leaner, and leaned out easierwhile cruising, so I figure I might need to mess with the fuel tables a bit and take/add a little timing here and there.
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Postby tebriel » Thu May 25, 2006 8:24 pm

hey sam could you send me or upload your msq file? I tried getting the ms2 to run on the turbo car a couple days ago but it ran so lean it didn't even register on the wideband. we tried richening it up, but it didn't make a difference. I must've missed a setting somewhere but i'm not sure what.
-teb
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Postby S.Bretz » Thu May 25, 2006 8:30 pm

Yeah, give me a few minutes. I have to go out to the car and grab the laptop...an then let it load. I'll get the most resent. It is with the 96lb/hr injectors and the new intake manifold and the bullforg cams, so I don't know how it will work for you...especially at idle. I had to made a pretty aggressive timing advance wall to keep it from idleing...and I Have bee idleing it at about 1300-1400. Under that the injectors can't spray and less fuel and the it chokes out....i'llbe back.
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Postby S.Bretz » Thu May 25, 2006 8:46 pm

ok...here is a .ini file witch I modded to accept up to 25.5 ms of dwell...copy it over the .ini that you named "megasquirt-II.ini" or something like that. Its in the "mtCfg" folder.

Next is the .msg file.




Keep in mind I don't use the IAC, so you will have to mess with those numbers if you want that.
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Postby tebriel » Fri May 26, 2006 5:36 am

ok awesome! yeah i'm not using IAC, and my injectors are 86#'s so it's not too far off. I'll compare maps and see if i'm way off or something. My map works great for the MS1, but when i port it over tot he MS2 it doesn't seem to work.
I'll try this out, thanks.
-teb
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Postby bluetrepidation » Fri May 26, 2006 6:51 am

Seems like something was up with that other ICM. BTW does anyone have a stock Saturn ignition timing map that I can look at?

Keep us posted,
A.J.
1999 Saturn SC2 1.9L DOHC 4 cyl NA
MS II Blue Processor w/ 2.686t5 Beta Code
V3 PCB
MegaTune 2.25
Innovate LC1 WB O2 Sensor
OBD I Saturn Wasted Spark DIS
w/ Cooling Fan and IAC
User avatar
bluetrepidation
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Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2005 9:24 pm
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Postby S.Bretz » Fri May 26, 2006 11:57 am

There might be one over on TSN. I remember seeingone about a year or 1.5years ago...but I don't know where its at. YOu would need to search and start wading in the deep end.
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Postby bluetrepidation » Fri May 26, 2006 4:23 pm

Yeah I found a MAP that was in hexadecimal on there once and the status was "we're still trying to decipher this."

A.J.
1999 Saturn SC2 1.9L DOHC 4 cyl NA
MS II Blue Processor w/ 2.686t5 Beta Code
V3 PCB
MegaTune 2.25
Innovate LC1 WB O2 Sensor
OBD I Saturn Wasted Spark DIS
w/ Cooling Fan and IAC
User avatar
bluetrepidation
Experienced MS/Extra'er
 
Posts: 267
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2005 9:24 pm
Location: Youngstown Ohio

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