Hi All
Scored an Edelbrock Pro Flow kit some time back but decided to use MS for the uC instead of the supplied one. I had the Pico injectors flow tested (ordered with 35lb injectors) and the attached is the results (I run at 3bar). They seem to be terrible to me, are there any gurus out there that can verify one way or another. The car is fitted with a 351W and I seem to be having a lot of trouble from idle to light cruising. Any ideas or thoughts?
Using MSnS-E 029q, V2.2 PCB.
Thanks in advance all
DaveZZ
Are these injectors flow figures a problem?
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TT350chevelle
- Master MS/Extra'er
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Well I certainly don't claim to be an expert, but I can't see any problems there. Your tests are done over a full min of flow and the max I see was about a 5 cc difference I can't see how that will be a problem.
Keep track of each injectors flow and keep that in mind when tuning and reading the plugs, I'm going to bet your not going to beable to see a difference.
Brad J.
Keep track of each injectors flow and keep that in mind when tuning and reading the plugs, I'm going to bet your not going to beable to see a difference.
Brad J.
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TT350chevelle
- Master MS/Extra'er
- Posts: 715
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You mean leaner (higher) than 13-1, right? Don't be surprised to see your engine not wanting to run very smooth with lean afr's, tuning low rpm and idle is best achieved by ear/eye and manifold vaccuum, just tune to the smoothest idle and best manifold vaccuum.
My car idles best between 11.8-1 and 12-1 afr.
Brad J.
My car idles best between 11.8-1 and 12-1 afr.
Brad J.
How big is the cam and what's been done to the heads? Your injector size is fine for a mild 351.
Also what O2 sensor you running?
With my 400 I found the idle went to the dogs if I went richer than about 12.5:1. It has a best idle with an AFR of about 13-13.5:1 with 20° initial timing. My cam is a solid flat tappet with short seat timing but 244/236 @ 0.050 duration cut on 110LSA so it'd fall in the medium to large bracket for a street car.
Also what O2 sensor you running?
With my 400 I found the idle went to the dogs if I went richer than about 12.5:1. It has a best idle with an AFR of about 13-13.5:1 with 20° initial timing. My cam is a solid flat tappet with short seat timing but 244/236 @ 0.050 duration cut on 110LSA so it'd fall in the medium to large bracket for a street car.
Sydney, Australia
1971 Holden Monaro HQ
MS3X Sequentially fuelled 400 Pontiac
1971 Holden Monaro HQ
MS3X Sequentially fuelled 400 Pontiac
G'day Kris
Its a mild 351W, it has equivalent to J302 alloy heads (made by the guy that Ford SVO originally brought them through) that flow about 244cfm @ 550 lift, Edelbrock Pro Flow inlet manifold, 35lb pico injectors and Crane Roller cam 224/232 @ 50 thou duration, 543/562 lift. I have about 50KPa inlet pressure @ idle (900RPM) and around 40KPa @ 60-70kph. I haven't done a great deal with the advance side (do not believe it could be causing the problem but I could be wrong I guess), have an inital of 16deg and total of 36-38 degree. The O2 is TechEdge WBO2 with all my logging I use the linear output to MS (extra 029). The car used to run on a Dual Gas Research System and MS just controlled the ignition. It never missed a beat. I could run anywhere from 12.5 to 15:1 A/F and it was like a rock. Now with injection the car should have a curly tail on it because its nothing short of a PIG! I have had my car on a dyno when on LPG and the WBO2 matched the dyno extremely closely. Now if I run anything less than 13:1 A/F below 2000RPM it almost sounds like its either missing or a few injectors arent firing or something like that. Hence I thought maybe because the injectors have a tolerance >10% (at the lower opening time scale) the mismatch might be causing some of the uneveness I'm experiencing at light load, that maybe this is masked at heavier loads or running richer because the tolerance between injectors is reduced to <5% (maybe I'm clutching at straws).
I have checked with a CRO, power/switching appears ok right down to the injectors, if I accelerate from 1300 to 2300 (and beyond) it seems ok just doesn't seem to like light load cruising at lower RPM's. I put a "call for help" on http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?t=18236 but failed to be fruitful. I have changed fuel pump combo's about three times, finally had my tank modified and a VT Commodore setup put in, that did help, removed the Commodore pump (heard they were suspect) and put a pre-pump to feed my Walbro external pump, that didn't help. I have a VDO fuel pressure gauge on one of the rails, it is certainly unstable at times (with or without vacuum line fitted), thats why I kept changing fuel pump combos but nothing really changes the gauge movement except if I richen the thing up to these "stupid" levels! Fueltronics here reckon if its not properly dampened then it my just be vibrations in the engine causing that. I'm going to change over to my MS2 this weekend in the hope ms extra is not coping, I see a few people with similar issues to me only trouble is I've never had my car running decent on petrol to know one way or the other, I will be surprised if it fixes it but I don't have many more choices apart from spend more and maybe try another regulator but from what I hear they are generally reliable. The one I got is from the Pro Flow system which I believe were fitted to mid 1990 Corvettes (do you know if they are any good). All my datalogs appear noise free so I'm just stumped. The weird thing is the car is always easy to start (actually start first pop after install), I thought I was on a real winner! Well now I'm not so sure, this has been going on now for over 2 months and I'm not sure how much more I'm willing to tolerate since I drive this everyday to work. If you have any suggestions I'm all ears. I would be interested to view any msq from anyone running ms-extra 029 /2 of similar specs to mine.
Cheers
DaveZZ
Its a mild 351W, it has equivalent to J302 alloy heads (made by the guy that Ford SVO originally brought them through) that flow about 244cfm @ 550 lift, Edelbrock Pro Flow inlet manifold, 35lb pico injectors and Crane Roller cam 224/232 @ 50 thou duration, 543/562 lift. I have about 50KPa inlet pressure @ idle (900RPM) and around 40KPa @ 60-70kph. I haven't done a great deal with the advance side (do not believe it could be causing the problem but I could be wrong I guess), have an inital of 16deg and total of 36-38 degree. The O2 is TechEdge WBO2 with all my logging I use the linear output to MS (extra 029). The car used to run on a Dual Gas Research System and MS just controlled the ignition. It never missed a beat. I could run anywhere from 12.5 to 15:1 A/F and it was like a rock. Now with injection the car should have a curly tail on it because its nothing short of a PIG! I have had my car on a dyno when on LPG and the WBO2 matched the dyno extremely closely. Now if I run anything less than 13:1 A/F below 2000RPM it almost sounds like its either missing or a few injectors arent firing or something like that. Hence I thought maybe because the injectors have a tolerance >10% (at the lower opening time scale) the mismatch might be causing some of the uneveness I'm experiencing at light load, that maybe this is masked at heavier loads or running richer because the tolerance between injectors is reduced to <5% (maybe I'm clutching at straws).
I have checked with a CRO, power/switching appears ok right down to the injectors, if I accelerate from 1300 to 2300 (and beyond) it seems ok just doesn't seem to like light load cruising at lower RPM's. I put a "call for help" on http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?t=18236 but failed to be fruitful. I have changed fuel pump combo's about three times, finally had my tank modified and a VT Commodore setup put in, that did help, removed the Commodore pump (heard they were suspect) and put a pre-pump to feed my Walbro external pump, that didn't help. I have a VDO fuel pressure gauge on one of the rails, it is certainly unstable at times (with or without vacuum line fitted), thats why I kept changing fuel pump combos but nothing really changes the gauge movement except if I richen the thing up to these "stupid" levels! Fueltronics here reckon if its not properly dampened then it my just be vibrations in the engine causing that. I'm going to change over to my MS2 this weekend in the hope ms extra is not coping, I see a few people with similar issues to me only trouble is I've never had my car running decent on petrol to know one way or the other, I will be surprised if it fixes it but I don't have many more choices apart from spend more and maybe try another regulator but from what I hear they are generally reliable. The one I got is from the Pro Flow system which I believe were fitted to mid 1990 Corvettes (do you know if they are any good). All my datalogs appear noise free so I'm just stumped. The weird thing is the car is always easy to start (actually start first pop after install), I thought I was on a real winner! Well now I'm not so sure, this has been going on now for over 2 months and I'm not sure how much more I'm willing to tolerate since I drive this everyday to work. If you have any suggestions I'm all ears. I would be interested to view any msq from anyone running ms-extra 029 /2 of similar specs to mine.
Cheers
DaveZZ