MJLJ or MSx for timing control?

Conrad_Turbo · Post by **Conrad_Turbo** » Fri May 05, 2006 9:09 am

I am in the process of building up an engine and I have nearly everything in place, the only thing left is spark control. This is my setup:

Toyota Starlet
4k-c engine (stock it puts out 58hp, it should be making 130-140hp this year)
1.3L with a blow through carb setup

It is a race only car, but it’s built up as much as it can in it’s class…which leaves the car able to be streetable. Due to the rules (WCMA Solo 2 rules) I cannot install fuel injection on the car, but I am allowed to alter my ignition setup. I have done tons of research from using:

-Electromotive HPV-1, HPV-2, HPV-3b, HPX, XDi
-MSD 6AL with MSD Boost Timing Master (8762)
-MSD 6BTM
-MegaJoltLiteJr
-now just starting really looking at the MegaSquirt System

Now everything seems crude (in terms of true timing control) except the MegaJolt and the MegaSquirt system, so this is why I am posting. My requirements in terms of timing control are:

-timing that is based off MAP and rpm
-launch control (retard timing and spark cut)
-rev limiter
-get rid of the distributor system (use direct fire ignition)
-timing based of crank trigger wheel

Correct me if I’m wrong, but the faults of the MJLJ is that it cannot do launch control, retard past 10 degrees, or have a rev limiter. Can a MegaSquirt system just running spark control get around these faults? If so, which MegaSquirt system is capable of doing this?

Sorry for the long post, I just wanted to include as much information as possible.

Conrad_Turbo · Post by **Conrad_Turbo** » Mon May 08, 2006 8:27 am

Nobody knows? Or did I post this in the wrong forum?

renns · Post by **renns** » Mon May 08, 2006 10:32 am

Conrad,

MsnsExtra should work fine for your ignition-only application. The recent code versions cover all your requests below.

-timing that is based off MAP and rpm
-launch control (retard timing and spark cut)
-rev limiter
-get rid of the distributor system (use direct fire ignition)
-timing based of crank trigger wheel

Roger.

boost junkie · Post by **boost junkie** » Mon May 08, 2006 12:06 pm

http://megasquirt.sourceforge.net/extra/

Conrad_Turbo · Post by **Conrad_Turbo** » Tue May 09, 2006 2:12 pm

Ya I've looked through that page about a million times already.

I guess the big question I have is whether the MegaJolt can do what I want...if it can't then I want to know what things in particular it can't do. I think I might just go with the MegaSquirt 'n Spark Extra since there seems to be no support at all with the MegaJolt stuff. I'd certainly like to be proven wrong though.

Post by **jsmcortina** » Tue May 09, 2006 3:39 pm

Megajolt doesn't exist yet, but the last time I checked, the MegaJoltLiteJunior was EDIS only which does not allow spark cut rev limiting.

The MS1/Extra code and direct coil control will give you launch, flat-shift, rev limiting etc. (I use all three)

James

feck · Post by **feck** » Wed May 10, 2006 1:36 am

I think it is well worth using the MSnS because on top of the spark control you currently want, you can easily inject the motor at a later stage if you want.

Cheers
Daniel

Conrad_Turbo · Post by **Conrad_Turbo** » Wed May 10, 2006 6:19 am

jsmcortina, sorry I did mean MJLJ, any ideas when the actual Mega Jolt will be released (or what features are included)? Somehow I feel it still won't hold a candle to MS1/Extra.

feck, so all I will need is a MS1 unit and upgrade the firmware to MSnS? This is all I need to buy then: http://www.glensgarage.com/catalog/prod ... ucts_id=30 Correct? Is the relay board necessary for a strictly ignition controlled engine at the moment?

Also MSnS is the same as MS1/Extra correct? I am fairly new to this whole MS terminology and I want to make sure I get the best for my car, by fully understanding everything.

Post by **jsmcortina** » Wed May 10, 2006 7:28 am

Just buy a MS1 kit (or assembled). I doubt if you need the relay board.

The terms MSnS, MegasquirtnSpark, Megasquirtnspark-Extra, Extra are now used to mean the MS1/Extra firmware available from:

http://megasquirt.sourceforge.net/extra

(Strictly MegaSquirtnSpark (MSnS) is actually an ealier version by Magnus Bjelk that lead to MS1/Extra)

James

Conrad_Turbo · Post by **Conrad_Turbo** » Wed May 10, 2006 8:07 am

Excellent, thanks for the clarification James! I'm going to order a MS1 kit today (without the relay board).

Conrad_Turbo · Post by **Conrad_Turbo** » Wed May 10, 2006 9:38 am

Bah! I wish there was a website with a list of specs that each MS system can do (firmware and hardware wise) with the latest firmware and board revision. I have an EDIS module (36-1 wheel is being mounted on the crank pulley as we speak) and since the default timing is 10 degrees BTDC (using the EDIS controller), since I want to run antilag the default 10 degrees won’t work. I’d like to directly control the coil with the MS system, but now I am second guessing (yet again!) which MS system to choose.

So I guess what I am trying to ask is, what are the drawbacks with MS2 in terms of ignition control as compared to MS1/Extra? Also are the drawbacks hardware or firmware related?

I really appreciate the input you all have given so far.

rs2000 · Post by **rs2000** » Wed May 10, 2006 10:08 am

Some features such as rev limiter won't work with edis, since you want them edis won't suit you.

Best bet is to use a V3 board and your 36-1 wheel. Let megasquirt fire the coil itself using its inbuilt VB921 using a distributor, or fit a second VB921 and run wasted spark..

The page you want to read is here
http://megasquirt.sourceforge.net/extra ... wheel.html

Post by **jsmcortina** » Wed May 10, 2006 10:09 am

Get MS1 on a V3 board.

Use the 36-1 wheel, sensor and coilpack but ditch the EDIS module and run direct coil control.

Your vendor should be able to supply a second VB921 so you can control the two coils in your coilpack.

With the EDIS module you cannot (easily) do good launch or rev limiting.

Not quite sure how you intend to do anti-lag.

James

Conrad_Turbo · Post by **Conrad_Turbo** » Wed May 10, 2006 10:50 am

Okay sounds good, so the MS1 only has the hardware ability to control 1 coil then, hence needing the second VB921 to control the 2nd coil, correct?

I'll run the coil with direct control with the MS, with no EDIS pack. The big reason for MS is to get rid of the whole centrifugal/vac advance and have full control of the timing throughout the whole rpm band with varying boost levels.

Now what can the MS1 do that the MS2 can't do? MS2 is just strictly an ignition map with a rev limiter? No launch control, no ability to use the 36-1 VR wheel? I know MS1-Extra will work for me, but why wouldn't the MS2 work?

Post by **jsmcortina** » Wed May 10, 2006 11:45 am

At the present time MS2 cannot do direct wasted spark or launch control. There are many other differences, but these are the only differences that appear relevant for your application.

muythaibxr and I are working on adding these features to MS2, but it will be a while before we have anything to show.

For what you want, get the MS1 now - you can always consider MS2 later.

James

Conrad_Turbo · Post by **Conrad_Turbo** » Wed May 10, 2006 12:38 pm

Woot! MS1 has been ordered along with an additional VB921.