V6 only running on 4 cyls

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3VZ-FE
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Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 4:36 pm
Location: Norway

V6 only running on 4 cyls

Post by 3VZ-FE »

Wow, how i've struggeled with this problem now... :cry: :cry:

I'm running a toyota v6 (3vz-fe) 3.0 engine on ms2.2, MSnS-E, 024s09 and edis 6. I've got it to run on 4 cylinders, but it will never run on cyl 2 and 5. My firing order is 123456, so 2 and 5 use the same coil. Have brand new coilpack, wires and plugs. The spark is nice and strong on ALL cyls. Compression is very good, 11 bar on all cyls. Have taken out the injectors and tested them all at the same time, nice squirt and eqiual amount of fuel. Have tried both simultanyous and alternating (with 2 and 6 squirts)

2 and 5 won't run at all.. For all i know it can be a really stupid error somewhere, but i can't find it and have run out of searchoptions.

Has anyone an idea on what this problem could be?

Best regards, very, very, very tired squirter... :(
MR2 SW20
borflink
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Joined: Sat May 22, 2004 8:44 pm
Location: Southwest Arizona

shot in the dark

Post by borflink »

I assume you are running two banks of injectors? have you set up injector sequencing correctly? such as 2 squirts per cycle. >it helps if I read the ENTIRE post. I've just been breathing idle exhaust for the last hour :mrgreen:

If all parts are working correctly, the next thing would be setup. maybe try switching inj1 and inj2 wires at the relay board or the DB37 itself.

I KNOW that shouldn't make a difference, but I've seen stranger things.

Is your board assembled correctly? I just found I'd forgotten two caps on the flyback side of my V3 board. I hope no harm done to my unit.

Steve
3VZ-FE
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Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 4:36 pm
Location: Norway

Post by 3VZ-FE »

But do you think it could be a fuel problem? At this point i'm trying to get a proper idle, and i run 6 injects pr rpm. And all injectors work fine. I tested them with ms connected while cranking. I should get a quite equal amount of fuel to each cyl then.....?

I bought my ms from an experienced ms-tuner in denmark, he has done the assembly.

It must be some kind of timingproblem somewhere?

Sorry if this isn't the correct forum. :oops:
MR2 SW20
borflink
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Posts: 19
Joined: Sat May 22, 2004 8:44 pm
Location: Southwest Arizona

Post by borflink »

Give this a read:

Injections per Engine Cycle is set the number of squirts you want per engine cycle. You want this to be set so that your idle pulse width is no less than 2.0 ms, if possible, and your Req_Fuel is less than 12-15 milliseconds, but more than 8 milliseconds. These values allow proper tuning of the idle mixture while maintaining the ability to apply enrichments (acceleration, warm-up, etc.) under full throttle. This is the total injector events that you wish to occur for every engine cycle (360 degrees for two stroke engines and 720° for four strokes).

Injector Staging values for injector staging are simultaneous or alternating. If you want all your injectors to fire at once, select simultaneous. If you want half your injectors to fire at each injection event, and the other half on the next event, select alternating.

Note that with port injection, you must choose at at least 2 squirts per cycle with alternating injection, otherwise every other cycle for each cylinder will get NO fuel! The engine will run very badly.

There is some benefit to choosing 2 squirts/alternating for port injection, since only half of the injectors fire at once, the pressure drop in the fuel rails is reduced and the fuelling is more consistent.

With throttle body injection, the number of injection/cycle you can will depend on your number of cylinders, plenum size, Req_Fuel, etc. You have to experiment to see what works best for your combination.

Engine Stroke values for engine stroke type are two-stroke or four-stroke. MegaSquirt uses engine stroke to determine how many degrees are in an engine cycle.

Number of Cylinders is the count of the cylinders on your engine. If you are unsure how many cylinders your engine has, you should not be installing MegaSquirt on it. This value is actually the number if ignition events per cycle sent to the ignition input on the controller.

Injector Port Type is used to select the type of injectors that you are using, throttle body or multi-port.

Number of Injectors is the total number of injectors MegaSquirt is controlling, whether port or throttle body injection.

Source: http://www.megamanual.com/v22manual/mtune.htm#constants

Let me know if this helps!

Steve
3VZ-FE
MS/Extra Newbie
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 4:36 pm
Location: Norway

Post by 3VZ-FE »

Yes, i've been thru the tuning page the other day. The only thing i couldn't understand was "Req_Fuel is less than 12-15 milliseconds, but more than 8 milliseconds". My calculated req fuel is 15,9 ms, with 3000 ccm and 200 hp.....
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3VZ-FE
MS/Extra Newbie
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 4:36 pm
Location: Norway

Post by 3VZ-FE »

Mike_Robert wrote: Edit: Never mind on the HP thing. I was thinking of the 3VZ-E, which is QUITE different from the -FE. Apologies!
:D Thats right. The 3vz-fe had 180 or 200 hp, depending on model. No mechanical differences between the two, just map/ignition differences. :)

The info i got on injector size said 200 cc. But that sound too small for 200hp. Don't think toyota max out injectors with oem ecu..
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jsmcortina
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Post by jsmcortina »

If you are sure you have spark then it must be fuel. Are the injectors opening? Can you feel them "click" ?
Have you tried swapping the injectors and/or wiring around?

James
I can repair or upgrade Megasquirts in UK. http://www.jamesmurrayengineering.co.uk

My Success story: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 04&t=34277
MSEXTRA documentation at: http://www.msextra.com/doc/index.html
New users, please read the "Forum Help Page".
3VZ-FE
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Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 4:36 pm
Location: Norway

Post by 3VZ-FE »

Problem solved some weeks ago, engine runs great. :D

I discovered 2 big things:

1. The error itself.
2. I'm very stupid

The problem was ofcourse wrong firingorder, had mixed to coils. I think the EDIS setup page that is avalivble is not very good, or i must be stupid. A little of both probably. I never imagined the engine would idle that nice on 4 cyl with 2 coils (---> 4 sparks) wrong, so that's why i didn't see i right away...

It would have been easyer if the firing order had been more clear, and if the wiring schematics to the coil pack matched the real life colors. :wink:

This fig. below should have been on the main edis page:

Image
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jsmcortina
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Post by jsmcortina »

The colours frequently vary from one vehicle to another and it is up to the installer to choose which coils to connect to which module pins. Matching the OEM is nice, but not essential. The critical thing that the documents show is the order the module fires the outputs.
Glad you got it running - it is so easy to get mixed up witrh firing order. (On my V8 I had 6 of the 8 wrong - oops.)

James
I can repair or upgrade Megasquirts in UK. http://www.jamesmurrayengineering.co.uk

My Success story: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 04&t=34277
MSEXTRA documentation at: http://www.msextra.com/doc/index.html
New users, please read the "Forum Help Page".
3VZ-FE
MS/Extra Newbie
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 4:36 pm
Location: Norway

Post by 3VZ-FE »

jsmcortina wrote:Matching the OEM is nice, but not essential. The critical thing that the documents show is the order the module fires the outputs.
Youre absolutly right. :)

Thx guys for all the help so far. :)
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borflink
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Posts: 19
Joined: Sat May 22, 2004 8:44 pm
Location: Southwest Arizona

Post by borflink »

Man, do I know about firing order problems. I recently had a SB Chevy ALL twisted up. I even triple checked firing order, and was scratching my head over the rough idle. 6 of the 8 were wrong, and all I had was a rough idle...

Glad to hear you are hitting all six now.

Now, the FUN part....tuning :twisted:

Happy 'Squirting!

Steve
3VZ-FE
MS/Extra Newbie
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 4:36 pm
Location: Norway

Post by 3VZ-FE »

Glad to hear you guru's also can make mistakes with the basic stuff. Makes me feel less stupid. :D

Now im working on my megaview :D
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