How to know the order of the injectors when hooking them up

[238ur50]

ok, here is my question, i was wondering how people know the order of the the injectors when hooking them up
i have seen wiring diagrams showing them hooked as:
1,2,3,4
1,4,2,3
1,3,2,4


i was wondering how i know hook them up

I am running MSnS-e fuel only on a car that is firing ordering is 1,4,2,3

can anyone help me out

also where would i get the tach signal from the stock pcm,
should we be using a tach signal that goes to the dash, the crank position sensor, or the cam position sensor


ok, now my next questions are

We got the car running it idles perfect, but it acts up really bad when we drive it around, any one have an idea way?

the car is an 04 Hyundai Accent


Thanks
Richie

[MegaScott]

ok, here is my question, i was wondering how people know the order of the the injectors when hooking them up
i have seen wiring diagrams showing them hooked as:
1,2,3,4
1,4,2,3
1,3,2,4


i was wondering how i know hook them up

I am running MSnS-e fuel only on a car that is firing ordering is 1,4,2,3

can anyone help me out

Here's the deal, you have two injector drivers with Megasquirt, they can be setup to inject fuel at the same time or alternating, by alternating I mean that one injection cyle it injects fuel on INJ1, the next cycle it injects fuel on INJ2.

The reasons behind splitting up the drivers is to help even out the fuel pressure, the consensus is that when all the injectors fire at once, the fuel pressure dips a little and you can get inconsistant fueling, while if you have less injectors opening at any one time the fuel pressure wont dip as much.

So, what people normally do is take the cylinder pairs that fire on opposite strokes, and squirt fuel evenly. Thus your 1423 would be wired 1,2 to INJ1 and 3,4 to INJ2. If you had a V or opposed cylinder engine, you would want one bank to fire and then the other.

The other thing is that Megasquirt does not know when it injects fuel in relation to the crank angle, so if you think about it, which injector you connect to which driver really makes little difference.

also where would i get the tach signal from the stock pcm,
should we be using a tach signal that goes to the dash, the crank position sensor, or the cam position sensor

you should use the signal that gives you a signal once for every firing, so the Tach signal to the dash would work. You could use the crank trigger sensor too if you know how many teeth are on the sprocket.

ok, now my next questions are

We got the car running it idles perfect, but it acts up really bad when we drive it around, any one have an idea way?

the car is an 04 Hyundai Accent


Thanks
Richie

Have you done any tuning? theres a series of steps to tuning a newly installed Megasquirt, you just shouldn't install it and start driving without at least doing some tuning. (unless you know what you are doing)

http://www.megamanual.com/v22manual/mtune.htm

[238ur50]

ok, here is my question, i was wondering how people know the order of the the injectors when hooking them up
i have seen wiring diagrams showing them hooked as:
1,2,3,4
1,4,2,3
1,3,2,4


i was wondering how i know hook them up

I am running MSnS-e fuel only on a car that is firing ordering is 1,4,2,3

can anyone help me out

Here's the deal, you have two injector drivers with Megasquirt, they can be setup to inject fuel at the same time or alternating, by alternating I mean that one injection cyle it injects fuel on INJ1, the next cycle it injects fuel on INJ2.

The reasons behind splitting up the drivers is to help even out the fuel pressure, the consensus is that when all the injectors fire at once, the fuel pressure dips a little and you can get inconsistant fueling, while if you have less injectors opening at any one time the fuel pressure wont dip as much.

So, what people normally do is take the cylinder pairs that fire on opposite strokes, and squirt fuel evenly. Thus your 1423 would be wired 1,2 to INJ1 and 3,4 to INJ2. If you had a V or opposed cylinder engine, you would want one bank to fire and then the other.

The other thing is that Megasquirt does not know when it injects fuel in relation to the crank angle, so if you think about it, which injector you connect to which driver really makes little difference.

also where would i get the tach signal from the stock pcm,
should we be using a tach signal that goes to the dash, the crank position sensor, or the cam position sensor

you should use the signal that gives you a signal once for every firing, so the Tach signal to the dash would work. You could use the crank trigger sensor too if you know how many teeth are on the sprocket.

ok, now my next questions are

We got the car running it idles perfect, but it acts up really bad when we drive it around, any one have an idea way?

the car is an 04 Hyundai Accent


Thanks
Richie

Have you done any tuning? theres a series of steps to tuning a newly installed Megasquirt, you just shouldn't install it and start driving without at least doing some tuning. (unless you know what you are doing)

http://www.megamanual.com/v22manual/mtune.htm

ok

scott

we have the injectors hooked up like this

injector 1 goes to pin 32 on the db37
injector 2 goes to pin 33 on the db37
injector 3 goes to pin 34 on the db37
injector 4 goes to pin 35 on the db37

does this seem right

i am guessing the inj1 driver are pins 32 and 33
and inj2 driver is 34 and 35


the crank has a 60-2 trigger wheel


i have done tons of tuning on piggy systems and chipped ecu's this is my first full out standalone


thanks
richie

[fscott]

It really depends on your firing order. You want the even numbered cylinders (their number in the firing order) on one bank, and the odd ones on the other bank.

So with a four cylinder, you want the first and third cylinder to fire on one bank, and the second and fourth on the other bank.

Fred

[MegaScott]

Richie,

That injector hookup sounds like it should work fine. although what i normally do is take two 20gauge wires and hook to 32 and 33, and splice to one 14 guage wire routed to one bank of injectors, vice versa for INJ2. Your method of using a single injector per pin should work out fine.

It is important that the power wire to the injectors comes from a switched source, like a high current relay slaved off the fuel pump relay, the same is true for your ignition power as well.

[238ur50]

Richie,

That injector hookup sounds like it should work fine. although what i normally do is take two 20gauge wires and hook to 32 and 33, and splice to one 14 guage wire routed to one bank of injectors, vice versa for INJ2. Your method of using a single injector per pin should work out fine.

It is important that the power wire to the injectors comes from a switched source, like a high current relay slaved off the fuel pump relay, the same is true for your ignition power as well.

Scott,

We are running MS, piggy back off the stock ecu

so we just cut the injector wires that were going to the stock ecu and hooked them to the MS

also if this helps the car idles perfect but once we start to drive it or even rev it, it acts like it has a load on it even when we just free rev it



thanks
richie

[MegaScott]

Ok, your stock ECU is controlling Spark. It will work to just disconnect the injectors from the stock ECU and run them with Megasquirt, People do this all the time, you need to be carefull to not disconnect from your stock ECU any of the stock sensors that could effect the timing.

Did you do anything that might have changed the stock timing? possibly you can check it to see if it is still good.

Do you have any kind of O2 sensor you can use to judge whether you are rich or lean? Perhaps you simply need to do a little tuning, usually if you drive and the engine lacks power, lean it out a little, and see of it picks up, if you lean it out and the engine starts to backfire, or it stumbles, richen it up.

[238ur50]

Ok, your stock ECU is controlling Spark. It will work to just disconnect the injectors from the stock ECU and run them with Megasquirt, People do this all the time, you need to be carefull to not disconnect from your stock ECU any of the stock sensors that could effect the timing.

Did you do anything that might have changed the stock timing? possibly you can check it to see if it is still good.

Do you have any kind of O2 sensor you can use to judge whether you are rich or lean? Perhaps you simply need to do a little tuning, usually if you drive and the engine lacks power, lean it out a little, and see of it picks up, if you lean it out and the engine starts to backfire, or it stumbles, richen it up.

We are running an AEM Wideband sensor

maybe i will get the owner of the car to post a log file


thanks
richie

[rbuecker]

Ok, your stock ECU is controlling Spark. It will work to Did you do anything that might have changed the stock timing? possibly you can check it to see if it is still good.

running 029q2

we pulled the resistors for coolant temp and intake air temp, the cluster gauges read accurate again with what megatune displays

the stock cluster tach does not work any longer. it was tapped for the megasquirt tach signal, which is working and gives a good reading. it is an output from the stock pcm, so should be ok (will run tach output from megasquirt to stock tach in the cluster once spark is up, so not too worried about)

i will be reading the ignition values with the dealer scan tool of a known good running vehicle, and comparing that to what we have put together. i think ignition may be retarded because of the turbo anti lag thread, and my turbo spools hella quick now.

i admit to not doing things in the right order, and promise to make up for it by going back to setting up a good VE table. i had set up some accel enrichments prior to getting a good ve table. also tried getting autotune to work, but still in a frenzy of learning megatune, tuning in general, and dealing with not pissing off friends. i have since removed the accel enrichments and have made better adjustments to the custom.ini for autotune. also set the ego correction more aggressive. to me, it seems that autotune would be magic and allow for quick basemaps. maybe this is true, but again still new to this and my mind is everywhere at once.



here is a logfile from a very adventurous trip home (too large to attach here, 6.5MB)
http://hyundairacer.com/rbuecker/2006May29datalog.xls

i'll also include the msq file. to people searching threads for help, this is likely an example of what not to do.

[MegaScott]

Agreed, you could be a little more judgmental of yourself, geez, I've never seen anyone here do anything backwards.

Seriously, it sounds likle you have a good roadmap to getting the car running properly, and a good grasp of what's going on.

I would not put too much faith in Autotune, you need to monitor it while it is doing it's thing, if you see anything questionable, shut it down, and do some manual tuning until you get the VE closer.