MS-II 8cyl COP Wasted Spark

dustobub · Post by **dustobub** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 1:02 pm

I am a little confused if this is even possible using the MS-II code, is it only available using the MSnS-E code?

I purchased and assembled the MS-II V3 kit from DiyAutoTune with 8 VB921s. I am installing it on an Audi 3.6 V8 in a Audi 90q. The engine currently has dual distributors but I was planning on tossing them. I purchased 8 COPs from 034motorsport and a 60-2 crank wheel. I know that 8cyl COP direct fire is not possible, guess it only works up to 6cyl but I am fine with running wasted spark. Is this setup possible using my current hardware? What software should I run? How should I wire the COPs and VB921s? Thanks.

Dustin

mops · Post by **mops** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 1:15 pm

as far as I;m concerned, you cant do that as of yet.

your options right now:

1. wait for MS2-extra code - unknown ETA or
2. wait router board of ms2 (additional board for purchase) - aparently soon, but no confirmed ETA
3. setup EIDS8
4. possibly TFI or HEI will work for you, i'm not familiar with those systems.
5. stock mechnical dizzy ignition setup

dustobub · Post by **dustobub** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 1:27 pm

Could I use dual EDIS4 or EIDS8 to control my COPs? If I use EIDS8, I've read that they have an upper reve limit of 6000rpm. Would that be an issue I was just using it to drive the COPs?

I will probably upgrade to the router board when it is made available, but I need a solution within a couple of weeks. Thanks.

Dustin

mops · Post by **mops** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 1:46 pm

if you need soultion now, i'll try to make stock ignition go... for now.

I'm not sure of particularities od EIDS, cant help you with that.

Post by **muythaibxr** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 2:18 pm

As far as ms2/extra goes, the upper limit there due to lack of outputs is going to be 8 cyl wasted spark.

As of right now, I've got 4 cyl wasted spark working flawlessly on the bench from 600 rpms to 8300 with a 12-1 wheel.

36-1 shows a little bit of missing in the 4000-5000 rpm range, but I think I have that issue figured out, just have to find more time to fix it.

After I get all the issues worked on on 4 cyl wasted spark, everything else should just work more or less.

I'm trying to get to this point before June 23rd, when I have to pass emissions in the car I'll be testing this stuff on.

Just a small update on ms2/extra.

IanS · Post by **IanS** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 3:53 pm

Does getting your car running for smog also involve 2nd wheel decoding? I remember you were interested in that a while back.

Good to hear about ms2/extra, though. I think that'll offer everything I need while I'm waiting for fancy toys like the router board.

mops · Post by **mops** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 4:11 pm

I'm not so sure aout router board. surly it will incerase capabilities of megasquirt (which is great), but then it will be just a product nigthmare....

-ms1,
-ms'n's,
-ms'n's extra,
-ms2,
-ms2 extra,
-ms2 with router board
-ms2 witho gpio board and with or without router board

and there will be at least two current codes for each as i know product development...

newbie people are already being consed between ms, ms'n's-extra and ms2, let alone when microsquirt, ms2 extra and other hardware options will be available...

MoveX · Post by **MoveX** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:33 am

dustobub wrote:Could I use dual EDIS4 or EIDS8 to control my COPs? If I use EIDS8, I've read that they have an upper reve limit of 6000rpm. Would that be an issue I was just using it to drive the COPs?

EDIS is not very suitable to drive COPs, the spark is weaker than on VB921 and there is a rev limit. I only have tested it with EDIS 4 but more than ~8000 rpm aren't possible. With the 36-1 wheel and a VR sensor the sensors limit is near 10000rpm so the EDIS itself is the limiting component.

muythaibxr wrote:As far as ms2/extra goes, the upper limit there due to lack of outputs is going to be 8 cyl wasted spark.

As of right now, I've got 4 cyl wasted spark working flawlessly on the bench from 600 rpms to 8300 with a 12-1 wheel.

...

Is this the upper rpm limit or only first range of testing ? Are there rough plans when to release the first public beta or alpha of the MS2/extra code?

dustobub · Post by **dustobub** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 5:45 am

I guess for now the best solution seems to purchase a MS-I CPU and run MSnS-E driving the 8 VB921s in wasted spark. Have people been having good experiences with that setup? As far as downconverting my MS-II V3 board to MS-I, all I have to do is install the CPU and cut the
JS9 to S12C jumper wire. Right?

Then, when the MS-II Extra code comes out, I will throw my MS-II back in and hopefully be happy.

Dustin

Keithg · Post by **Keithg** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 5:53 am

I am running MSnS-E 029q2 with 4 spark outputs on my 4 cyl and James is running it on his V8 with 4 vb921s I am pretty sure.

Wiring up 8 vb921s to drive 8 COP units from 4 spark outputs (COP units driven as Wasted Spark) is documented somewhere in the MSnS-E forum.

KeithG

Posted by email.

Post by **muythaibxr** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:27 am

IanS wrote:Does getting your car running for smog also involve 2nd wheel decoding? I remember you were interested in that a while back.

Good to hear about ms2/extra, though. I think that'll offer everything I need while I'm waiting for fancy toys like the router board.

No, but when I get around to implementing support for rotary engines, 2nd trigger will be needed.... I believe James was saying he's going to do the second trigger support, but I'm not positive on that... One of us will be doing it anyway.

Post by **muythaibxr** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:33 am

MoveX wrote: Is this the upper rpm limit or only first range of testing ? Are there rough plans when to release the first public beta or alpha of the MS2/extra code?

This is just as high as I've tested because my oscilloscope at the time wasn't good enough to let me get a good look at the output signals above that...

I just got a Tek digital storage scope with 5 channels (I can increase that to 8 or even 12 if I want, but can only display 8 at once) that gives me a much better look at what's going on, and have already used it to rule out what I thought was a problem in my code, but what turned out to be a problem with the wheel signal.

There are no plans on when we're going to release code to the public, as we want to do a lot of testing before releasing anything. We want to take time getting the interface right and making sure all selectable options for ignition either work or error out if they can't work, etc...