Please post your Coil On Plug ( COP ) Success

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Postby rb26dett » Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:18 am

mazda fe-dohc aka fe3 four stock fe3 coils, four short leads, four stock fe3 dumb mitsi ignitors, ms2e v2 alpha 10th may version, big turbo, stock guts, all externals made by me, board mod pics available in my mega thread about the project. runs sweetly. set dwell to 4.5ms to ensure sufficient charging for the highish boost and had no misfires. the ignitors and coils all stayed cold. the ignitors were on a small shared heatsink on the firewall above the engine.

fred.
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Postby Keithg » Tue Jun 12, 2007 11:19 am

In the process of converting to MS2/E Same as above, but with MS2/E controlling COP. I had to swap 1&4 and 3&2 to make it run because MS2 assumes that the second trigger is used to signal the opposite 360 degrees of crank rotation compared to MS1. It seems to run fine, though I am tracking down some noise.

Keith
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Alfa 3.0 V6 24V

Postby stephanv6 » Thu Jun 14, 2007 1:58 pm

I just managed to get Wasted Spark COP running on my
3.0 V6 24V Alfa Engine using the two Stock 0 227 100 203 Bosch Modules.

Please note that you need to set SPARK Output Inverted to NO !

If you want to use the drawing for the Manual feel free to do so.
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Postby Jobro » Sat Jul 21, 2007 2:03 pm

12A Mazda Rotary using 24-2 CAS (stolen from a 86-91 model)
4x Bosch BIM024
4x Bosch EA Falcon Coils [PN-9220061710] (surely any old coil would work tho)

1k ohm pullup resistor for leading ignition
2x 4.7k ohm pullup resistor for trailing ignition

LED14 has 1k pullup from +5V to Negative lead of LED14, then off to the 2 Leading BIMs in parallel, wiring diagram provided.

LED15 and 16 have 4.7k pullups wired separately off to trailing coils.

LED15 is rear trailing spark
LED16 is front trailing spark

Ignition Output set to normal
Dwell 7ms cranking, 4ms running, 1.5ms minimum discharge

This produces a very strong spark signal and uses more generic parts rather than specific rotary parts which was my aim.

Image
Image

As per my thread I'm trying to get VB921s to work with little success!
1982 RX-7 12A, MSII V3.0, running ms2extra 2.1.0E

Series 5 RX-7 throttle bodies, 2xID725, 2x1600
Complete fuel,ignition, and electric fan control. 11.828@124.30mph
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Postby the_mighty_one » Thu Aug 23, 2007 3:02 pm

hey.

im trying to currently fit an ecu to a volvo v70 2.4 with C.O.P.

its proving interesting as the current system on the car is fly-by-wire so im using parts of the OEM ecu to control the throttle butterfly, cooling fan control, traction assist and the VVT.



its currently not going very well at all. having issues with the software, apparently the ecu has version q and the megatune is version c or something along those lines.

it started off with my crank signal appearing on the lambda display, now i have no signal at all!!

im trying to resolve it with the supplier but they seem reluctant to help.

i shall try for a bit longer and see what happens, any suggestions as to my problems please PM me.

but i shall let you know how it goes, hopefully vroom vroom!
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Postby evolotion » Thu Aug 23, 2007 5:02 pm

sdezego wrote:
Phoenix3D wrote:My succes so far with COP's are as follows....

...
Audi/VW 20v 1.8l Turbo GTI motor 4 cyl x 1 of
SR20DET 2.0l Nissan 4 cyl x 2 of
VG30DETT 3.0l Nissan twin turbo 300ZX v6 x 2 off

all the above motors running off of V2.2 boards, VB921 ignitors and LM1815 conditioners where applicable.

...

90% of them are running the Hi-Res 09C Firmware.

Cheers !!!



Any More details on the 20v? Such as:

- 3 wire or 4 wire coils (Assume 3 wire since you say you used vbs)
- Dwell Settings
- Wasted Spark or Sequential?
- ...anything else you care to add ;)

Thanks,
Shawn


iv got the 4-pin coils working here (on a turbo'd rover k-series) at the moment car is off the road so not driven it yet, but got dwell at 2.6ms (found on the net somewhere, again not scoped) and these coils need driven by a PNP transistor that pulls the signal pin UP to +5v .. the COP's have an internal pull down resistor of around 120ohms so any attempt to drive them with the conventional transistor/vb921 and a low value pull up resistor jsut results in a weak spark or no spark atall.
220ft/lb@7900rpm@20psi ..13.3@114 .. 1.4 16v rover k-series engined rusty mini.
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Postby sdezego » Wed Aug 29, 2007 11:05 am

evolotion wrote:
iv got the 4-pin coils working here (on a turbo'd rover k-series) at the moment car is off the road so not driven it yet, but got dwell at 2.6ms (found on the net somewhere, again not scoped) and these coils need driven by a PNP transistor that pulls the signal pin UP to +5v .. the COP's have an internal pull down resistor of around 120ohms so any attempt to drive them with the conventional transistor/vb921 and a low value pull up resistor jsut results in a weak spark or no spark atall.


All, very good information! Thanks. I am still trying to decide on COPs or coil pack, but I'll save that for another thread. The recent information here provides alternatives.

Shawn
'90 Corrado G60 on MSns -e -> MS3 - '62 Harley Panhead

Supercharged 2L-20v Project Build -> http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2805002

Making 02m 6speed Conversion Mounts for VW MKII and MKIII -> http://www.generalprinciple.com/02m
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Postby smolly » Wed Aug 29, 2007 11:23 am

Audi 1.8T 20V (AGU) with Hitachi 4-pin COP's (http://rush.smolly.nl/changes/change4_2.htm)

Running dwell 2.6ms and cranking dwell 3.0 ms. Driven by 4 x VB921, however just for the reliability. Spark Output Inverted = NO.
V3.0 MS1 with hr_10d2 / errors* daughterboard
Mohr Rush kitcar with Audi 1.8 20V Turbo
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Postby sdezego » Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:49 am

smolly wrote:Audi 1.8T 20V (AGU) with Hitachi 4-pin COP's (http://rush.smolly.nl/changes/change4_2.htm)

Running dwell 2.6ms and cranking dwell 3.0 ms. Driven by 4 x VB921, however just for the reliability. Spark Output Inverted = NO.


There are the Exact COPs that I was looking at using (well actually the same engine pretty much).

Can you provide any more details:

- how long have you been running them (any issues at all)?
- Did you follow the standard wiring and resistors for the VB921s? I assume no to get a +5v trigger signal

Any details would be greatly appreciated. I checked out your project page and didn't see any details regarding this, but did see some other valuable info.

regards,
Shawn
'90 Corrado G60 on MSns -e -> MS3 - '62 Harley Panhead

Supercharged 2L-20v Project Build -> http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2805002

Making 02m 6speed Conversion Mounts for VW MKII and MKIII -> http://www.generalprinciple.com/02m
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Postby smolly » Mon Sep 03, 2007 11:27 am

- Running since 2nd of August, no issues (sofar).
- Connected according: http://www.msextra.com/manuals/MS_Extra_Ignition_Hardware_Manual.htm#2coils
with pull-up to +5V for the COP signal (I believe 1k, but I'm not 100% sure).
V3.0 MS1 with hr_10d2 / errors* daughterboard
Mohr Rush kitcar with Audi 1.8 20V Turbo
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Postby O(no)bmw » Wed Nov 07, 2007 1:06 pm

BMW M52 running 6 chrysler/jeep 2 pin cop's running dwell 2,5ms cranking dwell 4.5ms. running 28 psi.
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Postby evolotion » Wed Dec 19, 2007 3:23 pm

smolly wrote:- Running since 2nd of August, no issues (sofar).
- Connected according: http://www.msextra.com/manuals/MS_Extra_Ignition_Hardware_Manual.htm#2coils
with pull-up to +5V for the COP signal (I believe 1k, but I'm not 100% sure).


just so there is no confusion the coils i am running are the ones that kinda slide into the spark plug hole, not the ones with the 2 bolt holes. I googled the part No but it appears to be the same part No as the coils you are useing! :RTFM:

same pinout and connector as yours, but wired your way , my coils would not fire :( thought i'd add this to save future confusion for all the VAG guys! your site was my original guide for driving my coils. which are also now on the car and working great and tackling boost without issue!

cheers!
220ft/lb@7900rpm@20psi ..13.3@114 .. 1.4 16v rover k-series engined rusty mini.
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Postby smolly » Fri Dec 21, 2007 2:18 pm

evolotion wrote:...., but wired your way , my coils would not fire :( thought i'd add this to save future confusion for all the VAG guys! your site was my original guide for driving my coils. which are also now on the car and working great and tackling boost without issue!

How did you wire yours?
V3.0 MS1 with hr_10d2 / errors* daughterboard
Mohr Rush kitcar with Audi 1.8 20V Turbo
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Postby evolotion » Sat Dec 22, 2007 4:51 am

as i posted above. rather than use an NPN transostor(or vb921) to pull the output low from a pull up resistor, i had to use a pnp transistor to pull the output UP to 5v as it was pulled low by the coils internal 120 ohm pull down resistor.

this method resulted in a nice signal to the input of the coil that went from 0v to a regulated 5v,
220ft/lb@7900rpm@20psi ..13.3@114 .. 1.4 16v rover k-series engined rusty mini.
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Re: Alfa 3.0 V6 24V

Postby Peter Florance » Sat Dec 22, 2007 5:42 am

stephanv6 wrote:I just managed to get Wasted Spark COP running on my
3.0 V6 24V Alfa Engine using the two Stock 0 227 100 203 Bosch Modules.

Please note that you need to set SPARK Output Inverted to NO !

If you want to use the drawing for the Manual feel free to do so.


This is exactly what we did on th BMW race car (M50 in e30 M3 chassis).

BMW COP (Beru?) with dwell around 2 msec
Peter Florance
PF Tuning
81 BMW Euro 528i ESP Car
60-2 Wheel LS2 Coils, Low Z Inj
Check your grounds: http://www.msextra.com/doc/general/grounding.html
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Postby woh » Sat Jan 05, 2008 8:47 am

Keithg wrote:In the process of converting to MS2/E Same as above, but with MS2/E controlling COP. I had to swap 1&4 and 3&2 to make it run because MS2 assumes that the second trigger is used to signal the opposite 360 degrees of crank rotation compared to MS1. It seems to run fine, though I am tracking down some noise.

Keith


Does this mean that the connections for COP wasted spark are swapped for MS1/E vs MS2/E as regards to Spark A and Spark B outputs as in this write up?
http://home.comcast.net/~whaussmann/MS_ ... cks_v3.htm
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Postby kritip » Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:22 pm

Just to check.

COP can have a built in ignitor....this is similar to a VB921. If they are built in, you don't need vb921's but can trigger direct from the PCB.

If they don't have built in ignitors you MUST use vb921's.

Did I get that part correct?

If so, how do you tell what you have? My COP are champion pieces, and thats about all I know. They came with the engine i'm currently fitting.

If they have built in ignitors, then you could still drive them from the vb921 anyway, they will just be under very little load?

I will be running wasted spark COP for now, and have 2 more vb921 ready to fit if needed.

Cheers,

Kristian
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4 cylinder n/a, 16v 1368cc Fiat Seicento
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Postby Panterluca » Fri Jan 11, 2008 4:00 pm

Having big problems here running msextra on an Audi 1.8t 20vt engine using the existing COP units with built in ignitor, wired everything up, and got no spark, then i found the article about using the pnp transistors to invert the signal, that worked well and the car has spark, to connect the coils i used a 5v feed from the ms and an earth from the ms, the problem now is that when the engine runs the map reading is all over the place and even when revving the engine the map reading goes nowhere near where it is supposed to be, even with the pipe disconnected the map reading goes from 100kpa down to 70kpa about once every 2 seconds, the car is undrivable, i have changed map sensors with the exact same results and even tried a ms box from another car (which runs perfect) and it does the exact same thing. I need help to try fix this and i have no clues, i have tested close to everything now with no positive reults
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Postby woh » Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:43 pm

kritip wrote:Just to check.

COP can have a built in ignitor....this is similar to a VB921. If they are built in, you don't need vb921's but can trigger direct from the PCB.

If they don't have built in ignitors you MUST use vb921's.

Did I get that part correct?;

yes

If so, how do you tell what you have? My COP are champion pieces, and thats about all I know. They came with the engine i'm currently fitting.

How many pins do they have? Is there a PN on them?
If you post a picture, someone may be able to identify them.

If they have built in ignitors, then you could still drive them from the vb921 anyway, they will just be under very little load?

Yes
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