Please post your Coil On Plug ( COP ) Success

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Postby daxtojeiro » Sat Jan 12, 2008 4:15 pm

Hi all,
just to let you know that the manuals now has a fair amount about COPs from a thread woh and others were involved in:
MS1
http://www.msextra.com/manuals/MS_Extra ... .htm#cop30

MS2
http://www.msextra.com/ms2extra/MS2-Ext ... m#copsetup

and Ive done a little for my site:

http://www.extraefi.co.uk/cop_ignitor.htm

Phil
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manuals/MS_Extra_Manual_Index.htm for MS1 Extra Manuals
ms2extra/ for MS2-Extra Manuals
http://www.extraefi.co.uk/cobra/accobra.htm 5.0L TVR powered Cobra Replica (MSnS-E)
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Postby kritip » Sun Jan 13, 2008 11:22 am

Thanks a lot woh for your help :).

I just found that out the info from the links daxtojeiro posted.

I didn't receive thread updates,and came back to say I had found this really usefull information, and to post a link....turns out daxtojeiro had already posted it. (and probably writtten it as well 8) )

Just in case anyone cares my Champion COP's used on FIAT Panda 100hp and other modern 1368cc FIAT's are 3 pin, so have NO built in ignitors.

Once I figure out the pins and get it working in wasted spark, I will post up the details etc 8)

Thanks again :)

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Postby turbo355 » Sun Jan 13, 2008 10:12 pm

I got a 00 Hayabusa running full timing control with cop setup i am using the 8 gap wheel and the second trigger. Im still working out some bugs in the VR circuit causing some spikes but other than that it seem to be working alright so far.

Im using the stock COP units that came stock with the bike with 4 vb921 firing them with dwell set at 4.0 cranking 1.8 running they seem to spark real well.

Im using the MS1 with the HR extra 10d code.

As soon as i get my new VR board from Jean (i hope this will fix my spike problems) then i plan to install the 24-1 wheel and set it up, then go to the MS2 Extra and give it a go.
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Postby Vauhtivaunu » Mon Jan 14, 2008 1:25 pm

Bmw E36 325i -91 / M50B25/ no VANOS
Original crank and cam sensors with 60-2 wheel. Sequential COP with stock coils. Mega is v2.2 with MC68HC908. Code is extra 029y4. Crank wheel reading via lm1815 and cam with hei-ignitor and 4N25-circuit. Six VB921:s in separate box.

Wheel Decoder Settings:
Base teeth: 120
Second trigger on rising edge
Missing teeth:-2
Trigger A: 6
Trigger B: 26
Trigger C: 46
Trigger D: 66
Trigger E: 86
Trigger F: 106
Trigger angle: 60
Trigger returns are set 0 as I´m using time based setting for cranking.

Dwell:
Cranking: 3.0
Running: 2.1

Engine is running nice and smooth.
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Postby kritip » Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:25 am

Magneti Marelli BAE 403

www.mmcompsys.com/download_zone/5_ignit ... oil_01.pdf

Very similar to:

http://motorsport.magnetimarelli.com/PD ... rev4.0.pdf

Technical Data
Nominal supply voltage.............................13.5 v
Charge current...............................................7 A
Dwell (7amp / 14v)......................................0.9 ms
Dwell (11amp / 14v)....................................1.8 ms
Spark duration............................................450 µs
Spark duration..............................................98 ms
Spark current.............................................590 mA
Combustion energy......................................18 mJ
Weight.......................................................180 g


I am driving these with 4 VB921 as they do not have built in ignitors. I am running waste spark from 2 spark outputs, with each take off having a 680 ohm resistor as per the guides.

Taking it out from a new DB connector in place of the LED's.

Running ok, with minimum discharge 0.1, cranking dwell at 6ms, running dwell at 1ms!!!!!!

Looking at the specifications, they require 7amp's for 0.9ms and if i cut the dwell dack, it start to cut out at 0.7ms, so i've settle for a dwell of 1ms.

Cranking dwell is higher, but i doubt this makes any difference.

The VB921 are not capable to supply enough current according to the specification, and it looks like i'm on the lowest setting. This is probably producing a weak spark and making starting harder...but it does fire up, and does run all the way to 7,000rpm!




I do have 4x IRGB14C40LPBF by INTERNATIONAL RECTIFIER coming in the next few days which I will mount externally in the engine bay when time allows. The wil allow much more current but are not internally regulated.

Description

* IGBT, TO-220 430V 20A
* Transistor type:IGBT
* Case style:TO-220 (SOT-78B)
* Voltage, Vceo:430V
* Voltage, Vce sat max:1.75V
* Current, Ic continuous a max:20A
* Power, Pd:125W
* Time, rise:2400ns
* Pins, No. of:3
* Power dissipation:125W
* Temperature, Tj max:175°C
* Temperature, Tj min:-40°C
* Temperature, current:25°C
* Temperature, full power rating:25°C
* Time, fall max:2.8ns
* Transistor polarity:N
* Transistors, No. of:1
* Voltage, clamping:430V

Know very little about the specification required, but in my eyes these looked ok, are readily available and cheap at £3.21 each. 20A will be more than enough to drive the coils, and knowing the dwell of them from the coils tech sheet means there will be no need to scope or guess :D

I will report on the spark strength and starting once they are installed.

The are listed for motorsport use, but are an OEM part on 1.4 and 1.6 Fiat Stilo, Punto, Idea, Panda - The newest models from about 2004 onwards.

You can get them for £30 a piece from www.shop4parts.co.uk ad many other sources as well.


Cheers,

Kristian
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5.7 Hemi Wasted Spark COP with VB921's

Postby SMALOR » Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:52 pm

5.7 Hemi is up and running with 8 COP's firing 16 spark plugs.

I put a little write up in the Sucess chit chat forum and will put up a success story on msruns with pic or two when I get some time.
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Postby kritip » Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:58 pm

How do 8 COP's fire 16 Plugs :?: Can you get dual plug COP's for twinsparks?
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Postby Matt Cramer » Wed Feb 13, 2008 7:44 am

The new Hemis are pretty weird - they have eight twin-tower coils, and work in a sort of double wasted spark format.
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Postby armyboot » Sun Mar 09, 2008 8:29 pm

yeaah, 1jzgte running full cop on 6xvb921's with ms1 v3, lm1815 in proto
running clean and revs fast. Stock coils and stock sensors.
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Postby Gimpster » Sun Mar 16, 2008 7:34 pm

I'm currently running a Toyota 1MZ-FE (non-VVTi) on MS1 w/V3.0 board with the stock "3 COP" style stock coils and the stock 3 COP dumb igniter (these are dumb coils, no igniter in them). It's being triggered off the stock crank wheel currently, which is a 36-2 wheel. I'm using 330ohm resistors on the LED's.

Basically toyota put a 3 COP system on some of these motors that has a lug on it for a plug wire to the other cylinder.

My engine was originally from a 1995 Toyota Avalon which actually has a 6 COP style system AND the "smart" igniter like the 2JZ etc. I down graded it to that 3 COP style system due to major issues getting that to fire correctly. My goal was to fire the motor with Toyota igniter electronics, and avoid the use of VB921's.

I will be converting it to a waste fire 6 COP system using the original dumb coils and two of the 3 COP style igniters.

It's not uncommon for people to have signal quality issues with the stock Toyota 36-2 crank trigger on these motors, but so far.. so good.

Down the road I'd like to utilize the stock cam angle sensor and return the car to sequential ignition, but it's not high priority. Toyota didn't seem to have a problem running these batch for a long time.

Now that I've confused you all, here are my settings:

Teeth: 36
Missing Teeth: -2
Trig Pos A: 11
Trig Pos B: 23
Trig Pos C: 35
Decoder routine: 025 style
Trigger Angle: 70
Cranking Timing: Time based
Cranking Advance angle: -5
Hold ignition: 1
Spark Output Inverted: Yes
Cranking Dwell: 5.0ms
Running Dwell: 3.2ms
Min. Discharge period: 0.1ms

PS: The setup is in a 1993 Toyota MR2
1993 Toyota MR2 - V6 Powered
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Postby automat » Mon Apr 07, 2008 9:02 am

Suzuki Swift 3 cylinder 1.0L

I have MS2E 2.0 with a custom made 36 teeth wheel (non-missing) and the second trigger is the stock distributor with only one tooth remaining.

The coils are from a Suzuki Aerio or Vitara and they have a built in ignitor. I use 680 ohm resistors from the 3 LEDs to directly drive them. It works perfectly :D
'93 Suzuki Swift 993cc 3 cylinders with a TD04L-13T , melted piston @ 25psi with a bad fuel pump. MS2E 3.0.3 standalone
'07 Suzuki SX4 2.0L , TurbineTech turbo kit. MS2E 2.0 used as a piggyback
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Re: Please post your Coil On Plug ( COP ) Success

Postby ol boy » Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:39 am

SB Ford, 289 running LS2 coils. MS2 3.0. 2.0.1 release. Drilled 8 even 1/4 inch holes into the crank pulley and inserted 1/4 in lag bolts for trigger teeth. Removed the one tooth that got a way while drilling to make the 8-1 wheel required. VR sencor I found in a junk yard along with the GM CLT and IAT. Fired up and ran on second crank after removing 20 degrees from #1 trigger angle. I lucked out with I found the coils on ebay, they came with brackets and factory wiring which made the whole process alot easier.

I removed the coils from the brackets and installed them right onto the valve cover. I'm getting a little oil leaking thru the holes but nothing RTV can't fix. Make sure your bracket which holds the VR is really stiff. I had issues where the sencor would get hit which throws everything off and no tach signal the next time you crank on it. Got that fixed though.

Later.. Still smiling ear to ear. Ryan.
289 SBFord, Dual GM TBI, 8 LS2 coils in waste spark and a TURBO!, MS2extra 3.3.0
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Re: Please post your Coil On Plug ( COP ) Success

Postby DaveW » Tue Aug 26, 2008 5:11 pm

LS-1 coils

5ms Cranking
4ms Running
1ms Min. Discharge Period

Direct drive to the coils from Spark A,B,C.D via 330 ohm resistor "just in case". Each output goes to 2 coils in wasted spark arrangement.

Running 5.7 LS1/6 V8 engine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgOkVX1h ... e=related#
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Re: Please post your Coil On Plug ( COP ) Success

Postby trd87t » Sun Sep 21, 2008 12:18 pm

1JZGTE running with the new 6 BIPs. Everything else is stock!
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Re: Please post your Coil On Plug ( COP ) Success

Postby JaccoF » Sun Sep 21, 2008 11:40 pm

LS2 coils on a 289ci 68 Mustang in wasted spark direct drive with Ms2-extra 2.01.
Jacco

68 Mustang 289 V8 megasquirt 3 MPI BiFuel fullseq. V8 LPG & Petrol Injection & Spark
91 Ford Sierra 1.6 OHC MS2

Your European Megasquirt source
http://www.jfetech.nl
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Re: Please post your Coil On Plug ( COP ) Success

Postby piubrazil » Sat Feb 28, 2009 6:57 pm

I'm using COP in wasted spark mode in my 2.0 liter VW ABA block with audi AGU 20V head boosted at 20psi in E100 Fuel.
Using 2 coils in parallel each ign channel wired 1-4 and 2-3.
Ignition drivers are Fairchild V3040 mounted in a CPU cooler along 2 peak and hold darlington drivers.
Dwell 3.0mS and using 0,8mm plug gap with no misfires in any condition up to 8200RPM.
Boost will be raised to 35psi soon.

The setup:
DSC05913.jpg


Board I draw after some noise problems with V3:
DSC03085 (Medium).JPG


The ignition and injector drivers under the cooler:
DSC03066 (Medium).JPG
Last edited by piubrazil on Thu Dec 17, 2009 4:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Please post your Coil On Plug ( COP ) Success

Postby woh » Sat Feb 28, 2009 8:45 pm

piubrazil
That is pretty :)
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GM Vortec 4200 DOHC inline 6 now COP with MSExtra

Postby ca434sbc4 » Sun Mar 08, 2009 7:57 pm

First thanks to James for writing the 7 notch timing wheel code. This could not have happened with out his effort.

I'll be sending in a complete how to soon. Basically the 4200 using a 7 notch timing wheel built into the crankshaft between throws 5&6. The pickup is fixed to the side of the block.

From the pick up it goes into the vrin and gnd. For spark output we're running in wasted mode on spark A,B&C. Firing order in 153624. Coils are paired 1&6, 5&2 and 3&4.

The GM COP coils for the '02 to '05 motor take a max of 3.3v on the trigger input - found this out the hard way.

I have decent msq files for a stock engine and a turbo motor up to 9 psi boost if any one is interseted.
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Re: Please post your Coil On Plug ( COP ) Success

Postby Laurelturbo » Tue Mar 10, 2009 6:32 am

Car: 200sx (Silvia) S14
SR20det
Turbo: GT2871RS
Tube manifold
High flow downpipe, 3" Exhaust
Nismo 740cc Injectors
Walbro 255 fuel pump
Std fuel rail, engine internals, head gasket, Camshafts, tranny, intake manifold, throttle body
Large FMIC, HKS blow off valve
Std Coils
60-2 VR

Dwell is 1.5ms running (no science here by the way, other values could be more correct. but this gives a good, strong spark with no overheat). PS DO NOT put Bosch coil drivers inside the MS II Box. The magnetic field interfeers with the MS, and cause cut outs at hard throttle\boost. Also, VB921s are too weak, and will not work. This is for std Nissan coils on a Black top wunning wasted spark. I run 4 Bosch drivers in a seperate box by the way. Never heard of this problem before, or after though.

Power output is estimated just under 400 flywheel HP, and the engine runs great. If anyone needs a copy of fuel and spark tables, you can PM me, but remember this is almost a stock engine, which is the way I like them best.
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Re: Please post your Coil On Plug ( COP ) Success

Postby Gerald O » Mon Apr 06, 2009 3:15 pm

1978 MGB roadster, 1800cc 4-cylinder with LS-2 coils in COP sequential.
36-1tooth 6-3/4inch crank wheel with ford mustang VR sensor going through the MS V3 VR conditioner circuit.
1 'tooth' (slot) optical wheel on modified stock distributor using Crane/Allison Optical pickup. Uses existing V3 opto isolator circuit.
Ignition circuits are 5volt ground-switching mod: A,B,C,D.
MS2 2.01 extra release code

So far ignition only, but fuel will follow. I just got it running and still need to do the tuning.
Megatune settings examples in the manuals were not accurate. Examples show "wasted spark" setting for sequential COP, but COP must be selected. Also skip pulses is grayed out. Tooth #1 angle does not calculate relative to 2nd trigger, instead, calculates relative to crank missing tooth and is relatively insensitive to 2nd trigger other than cycle phasing. I'm new to Megasquirt, so I may be missing something in my understanding, but it took a lot of trial-and-error to find the combination of settings that would run sequential with my configuration.

I added the capacitors to the LS-2 coils to eliminate noise causing UART/USB converter lockup. Also changed coil supply grounding to near the coils on block. Added snap-on ferrite choke to USB cable. Not sure which one of these fixed it, as I made all the changes together. But communications seem solidly reliable now.

Image
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