Ignition coils?

[tronds]

I have a large number of outboard ignition coils. The Mercury coils requires a primary voltage of about 150V. The output is far greater than the output of a standard automobile coil. If I could mount 4 of these on a aluminium plate and use them for ignition it would be great.
To do this I need wheel trigger input and some kind of amplifier to pump the primary voltage up to about 150V.
I plan to use wasted spark, so I need to use spark A and spark B outputs.

Do anyone have an idea of what kind of amplifier to use?

This is just a "clever" idea, not a thing I have to do.

[djandruczyk]

I have a large number of outboard ignition coils. The Mercury coils requires a primary voltage of about 150V. The output is far greater than the output of a standard automobile coil. If I could mount 4 of these on a aluminium plate and use them for ignition it would be great.
To do this I need wheel trigger input and some kind of amplifier to pump the primary voltage up to about 150V.
I plan to use wasted spark, so I need to use spark A and spark B outputs.

Do anyone have an idea of what kind of amplifier to use?

This is just a "clever" idea, not a thing I have to do.

Those a CDI coils and require a CDI ignition like an MSD 6AL or similar.
CDI ignitions dump a high voltage (from a cap) across the coil promary, hence why they call it capacitive discharge. Inductive ignitition coils have 12 volts on one side of the primary and a switched connected (driven by the ecu or points) on the other. Spark occurs when the connection is BROKEN (i.e. points open, transistor turns OFF) due to the ignition coil primary fields collapsing (inductive).

CDI coils have VERY low DC primary resistance typically under 1 ohm. Inductive coils have DC resistances of 3-15 ohms.

You can't use one coil with the other type of ignition and get a satisfactory (or any for many cases) spark. (esp if you use a cdi coil on an inductive ignition u typically blow the power transistor)

Most 2stroke engines used CDI, as it did NOT require a battery. (there were power/trigger coils underneath the flywheel to power the ignition box)

[tronds]

What you say is true. I am an outboad mechanic, so I basically know how they work.
You say that a MSD ignition may be used here. Could be. It's just a idea yet. I was also wondering if I could use the switchbox from a Mercury 4 cylinder. If so, I will need a 180V source to feed the switchbox.
I do not know how the trigger works, but I suspect it triggers one sylinder on rising pulse, and the other in the pair on falling pulse. That would be difficult to recreate in MSnS.
The 180V can be created with a simple switchmode power. A small circuit with a swichmode regulator, a coil and some diodes. Not that difficult, but what I wanted was a rugged system like the outboard ignition systems.

[djandruczyk]

What you say is true. I am an outboad mechanic, so I basically know how they work.
You say that a MSD ignition may be used here. Could be. It's just a idea yet. I was also wondering if I could use the switchbox from a Mercury 4 cylinder. If so, I will need a 180V source to feed the switchbox.
I do not know how the trigger works, but I suspect it triggers one sylinder on rising pulse, and the other in the pair on falling pulse. That would be difficult to recreate in MSnS.
The 180V can be created with a simple switchmode power. A small circuit with a swichmode regulator, a coil and some diodes. Not that difficult, but what I wanted was a rugged system like the outboard ignition systems.

Why not use a regular CDI box for the outboard but DISCONNECT the trigger inputs and feed those to the ECU. so the ECU can trigger the box to fire at whatever timing you want. the CDI box should have inputs for the charge coil(s) (power coil that powers the 150V supply) and trigger coils (small coils to tell the unit to fire), typically one trigger coil per cylinder (for a 3 cyl motor), or 2 or 4 coils for a 4cyl. Disconnect those trigger coils and have the MS feed them a signal. It might require a small circuit to create a signal the CDI box responds to (monostable multivibrator or similar)

[Dr.Hess]

I don't know what your box thing does, but if it won't take 12V and 4 triggers in for 4 HV pulsed lines out and I was going to use those coils, I'd make a CD driver for each coil and control it all from the MS as a CoP. I once bought a CDI kit at an electronics store for ten bucks or so. Something like that would be just what you need for each coil. I'm sure you could build your own from schematics out here floating around.

Edit: BTW, you would need 4 MSD6A's to run 4 coils. Bring your BIG checkbook.

[tronds]

I don't know what your box thing does, but if it won't take 12V and 4 triggers in for 4 HV pulsed lines out and I was going to use those coils, I'd make a CD driver for each coil and control it all from the MS as a CoP. I once bought a CDI kit at an electronics store for ten bucks or so. Something like that would be just what you need for each coil. I'm sure you could build your own from schematics out here floating around.

Edit: BTW, you would need 4 MSD6A's to run 4 coils. Bring your BIG checkbook.

What I need is a switchmode power that takes 12V in and delivers 180-200V AC out. If I feed the Switchbox that contains 4 CDI drivers and trigger inputs with that voltage, I can connect the coils to the outputs as they are ment to be connected. I need some trigger input filtering since the triggers are two coils. One for each half of the box. One coil (nr. 1) triggers on positive going pulse from the trigger coil, the other (nr. 4) is trigged on negative going pulse for the trigger coil. This is according to description. Another fact is that both ends of the trigger coil is connected to the box. In fact this leads me to think that a positive pulse on the trigger input will make it spark.
I think that I have to set up my Mercury CDI ignition tester and take some measurements. I think that this could be done. BTW. The CDI ignition tester runs on 12V. If I copy the power circuit from it, I will have a 200V powersupply for my high energy ignition. I can also have a look at the trigger circuit in the tester. Interesting...

[MS2tester]

What you say is true. I am an outboad mechanic, so I basically know how they work.
You say that a MSD ignition may be used here. Could be. It's just a idea yet. I was also wondering if I could use the switchbox from a Mercury 4 cylinder. If so, I will need a 180V source to feed the switchbox.
I do not know how the trigger works, but I suspect it triggers one sylinder on rising pulse, and the other in the pair on falling pulse. That would be difficult to recreate in MSnS.
The 180V can be created with a simple switchmode power. A small circuit with a swichmode regulator, a coil and some diodes. Not that difficult, but what I wanted was a rugged system like the outboard ignition systems.

Why not use a regular CDI box for the outboard but DISCONNECT the trigger inputs and feed those to the ECU. so the ECU can trigger the box to fire at whatever timing you want. the CDI box should have inputs for the charge coil(s) (power coil that powers the 150V supply) and trigger coils (small coils to tell the unit to fire), typically one trigger coil per cylinder (for a 3 cyl motor), or 2 or 4 coils for a 4cyl. Disconnect those trigger coils and have the MS feed them a signal. It might require a small circuit to create a signal the CDI box responds to (monostable multivibrator or similar)

that is still on my "TO DO" list
i have found a freescale example of this ignition and a sort of how to connect

[elturbonitroso]

get a m&w box or a msd dis-4 and problem solves.

[MS2tester]

the idea is to utilize the original capacitive ignition parts
the problem can already be solved with induction coils and bip drivers
BTW are you sure these boxes have 6 ignition outputs,or 3 ? with 6 ign events per 360 dgr crank rotation

[MS2tester]

managed to find them again will look for the service manual explanation

[MS2tester]

made a scan of the service manual