NOT RunninG... anymore:(

kennman · Post by **kennman** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:00 am

hello!
I'm new around here and in the process of wiring car sensors to MS, and have a few problems. Let me introduce myself first-- My name is Igor,27, I come from Slovenia, a small country in the middle of Europe.
My car is a Hyundai Accent, y.1996, with 2.0 Hyundai Tiburon(Coupe) engine inside, and on it, now a supercharger, Eaton M62. System is done, all there's to do is wire up MS and start tuning.

Car:
2.0 Eaton M62 supercharged, 147 hp, 60-2 toothed wheel, wasted spark, VR crank sensor,Walbro 255lph, 440cc/min injectors.

MS1 setup:(from DIYautotune.com, they're GREAT guys, especially Matt!)
Megasquirt-I with V3.57 PCB
2. MOD_x357-VR_IN: Jumper unit for VR Ignition Input
3. MOD_1357IGBT2: Dual Ignition Outputs through IGBT's (VB921)
4. MSHarness 12' wiring harness

Hyundai has a great web support service, it's called hmaservice.com and that's where I get all my diagrams for wiring.

so, now to my problems:

1. The CKP sensor:
here's the diagram:
http://www.moj-album.com/slike/7451546/ ... 5dXR2I.jpg )
there are 3 wires- one is ground and the other two are signal wires.
There is only one tach wire in my MS harness, it's a shielded white wire that goes to pin#24 (shielded to pin#2 on MS).
so, CKP sensor A and CKP sensor B, according to the diagram, should receive different signals, right? here's another diagram:
http://www.moj-album.com/slike/7451546/ ... 8Pip.v.jpg

any suggestions how should i wire up my CKP to MS?

2. The FUEL pump:
Should I disconnect it totally from stock ECU, or can I leave it hooked on the stock ECU (for power and ground), and just split the signal wire into fuel pump relay?
diagram:
http://www.moj-album.com/slike/7451546/ ... sTpW.v.jpg

3. OXYGEN sensor:
The more I inspect it, the more I see it has ONLY 3 wires connected to it, but according to this diagram for my car: http://www.moj-album.com/slike/7451546/ ... YIym.v.jpg )
it should have also the 4th wire, the heater wire connected to it. I must say I have only 1 oxygen sensor, and it is upstream of the catalisator(no cat now anyway).
So if I have only 3 wires, first wire is ground, second is signal, and third goes to fuel pump relay, right? Is that correct?
SO, I measured the voltage in harness(after making sure the pin#1 is ground) - first between pin#1&pin#2, and then between pin#1&pin#3, when key was in ON position.
and I got
between pin#1&pin#2: 0.04V and
between pin#1&pin#3 0.4V.
SO according to this, if #1 is ground, can I assume, the wire #3 really goes to fuel pump relay, and wire #2 is signal?

4. Fuel only for now:
what do i need to connect from triggering part, if I want to control FUEL only for now?And let the stock ECU control spark. Do i need some sort of tacho input so that MS knows WHEN to squirt the fuel?

Okay, that's about it, for now. If I can get at least some of the answers that would be great. I know not many of you have dealt with hyundais, but so haven't I. There is someone on msextra.com who has been trying to connect MS to hyundai, but not with much success.
thanks for all the help!
Igor

kennman · Post by **kennman** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 3:55 pm

anybody?

Smog Fighter · Post by **Smog Fighter** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 6:44 pm

I'll take a crack at this one...

1. The CKP sensor: there are 3 wires- one is ground and the other two are signal wires.

Looking at the provided diagram,

it looks like pins 2&3 will be your + and -
for the actual sensor. pin 1 looks like it's for shielding.

Wire 2 as - to DB37 pin 7 and 3 as + to DB37 pin 24

2. The FUEL pump:
Should I disconnect it totally from stock ECU, or can I leave it hooked on the stock ECU (for power and ground), and just split the signal wire into fuel pump relay?

Disconnect from stock ecu, and give MS complete control of it.

3. OXYGEN sensor:
The more I inspect it, the more I see it has ONLY 3 wires connected to it...

If it has only 3 wires to it then 2 should be the same color. those two are
for the heater element. ground 1 and supply + to the other. the third wire is the signal wire which goes to DB37 pin 23.

Don't forget to install proper fuses to protect the other circuits.

kennman · Post by **kennman** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 9:25 am

3. OXYGEN sensor:
The more I inspect it, the more I see it has ONLY 3 wires connected to it...

If it has only 3 wires to it then 2 should be the same color. those two are
for the heater element. ground 1 and supply + to the other. the third wire is the signal wire which goes to DB37 pin 23.

Don't forget to install proper fuses to protect the other circuits.

Man, thak you SO much! Have just read your answers and am on my way to the garage.
Abut the o2 sensor- there are 3 wires, two of them are WHITE and one is BLACK. So i ground 1 white and supply + to the other white? OR!!
can I basically leave those two connected to stock wires (ground and +) and SPLICE only the SIGNAL wire to megasquirt!!?
thanks again! now I'm getting really close to starting her up!! HAPPY:)

Smog Fighter · Post by **Smog Fighter** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 2:36 pm

can I basically leave those two connected to stock wires (ground and +) and SPLICE only the SIGNAL wire to megasquirt!!?

Yes. Just make sure that 1 gets power and the other gets ground when
the engine is running.

Have fun.

kennman · Post by **kennman** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 3:51 pm

IT RUNS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

hahahahaaaaaaaa!!!!!!! yesssssssssssssssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i cant believe it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

my car is running AT LAST! it's been in garage since MAY!!

I connected the sensors and it fired up after 2 min of cranking (i changed the fuel pump, so there was air inside the fuel lining i guess)
I am controlling FUEL only for now, just to see if its working allright!

i have a very changing idle, it bounces from 1200- 1500rpm. I dont know what my AFR is, since i dont have wideband yet.

okay, so here is my MS file with asic settings for my engine= 2.0 hyundai tiburon with supercharger Eaton m62 installed>
http://files-upload.com/files/555514/me ... VEzano.msq

i got it from a great guy, FunkyPc from rdtiburon.com, and this is my datalogging file>
http://files-upload.com/files/555516/da ... snemam.xls

can you say anything from it?? am i running too lean, too rich, what does the data look like to you??
I know now i need tuning and am open to all the suggestions!
am soo happy right now the car started and would like to get it going as soon as pssible. BUT i am aware i should do this rationally, and am waiting for your suggestions and comments.
thanks!!!!

Igor

devojet · Post by **devojet** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 8:01 pm

Congrats on getting it running. The real fun starts now. I havent looked at your log but if the idle is jumping up and down I would guess it is too lean so try richening it up untill it settles. You really need to consider a Wideband O2 sensor as it makes tuning much easier although tuning idle and cruse can be done without one.

kennman · Post by **kennman** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 5:52 am

you think it's too lean? why do I smell so much gasoline then? maybe because of frequent cranking when trying to start it up?

and @ anybody: can you tell me if the numbers in the datalog file look okay, or if there's something wrong, PLEASE dont hesitate!!:)

p.s.:i dont have a wideband yet.

kennman · Post by **kennman** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 11:35 am

kennman wrote:datalogging file>
http://files-upload.com/files/555516/da ... snemam.xls
Igor

can anybody peak it it and maybe tell me how the values are? thank you all!

devojet · Post by **devojet** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:34 pm

Ok I had a look at your data log, but it is hard to tell you anything without an WBO2 sensor. Do you have a NBO2 connected? I think I was wrong when I said it was lean. it looks like it is a bit rich at idle. Just try adjusting the idle bins untill it settles down. Don't be scared to just play with the idle bins, you can't really hurt an engine when it is idling, it will just stall if you get it wrong.

A good place to get tuning advice is on the msefi.com under "Tuning fuel and air". there are some very knoledgable people who check that forum regually.

kennman · Post by **kennman** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:03 am

hey guys, i am looking for a spark map for my engine, it is Hyundai coupe 2.0 liter engine, 16V, now supercharged (before the SC it made 147 HP.) with 440cc/min(42lb) injectors.
now I' am looking for a turboed or supercharged 2.0 16V engine to copy the spark map from it.
I was told that similar engines have similar spark maps.
Anybody?

kennman · Post by **kennman** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 2:31 pm

today i was trying to tune the idle. In the beginning I have to mention, i dont have a IAC valve or Fidle. my idle is based on throttle body leak (hope thats the correct term)
anyway, the car fires up right away. It idles a bit high, at about 1300-1500rpm. I left it idle for a few minutes until it was warm. I checked the exhaust and the exhaust gas was pretty white! When i went in Megatune to Tuning/VE Table 1, and tried to lean out the part of the table where the idle was(i went down 5 steps- shift + 5xdown key), and the exhaust started banging (is this backfire maybe?) like a rallycar when off throttle, and the rpm went down to 800rpm and then i turned the key to off.
I got a bit scared, but anyway i started it up again after a few minutes and idle was still high -1500rpm, but there was no noticable backfiring. i guess i didnt save the "backfire" settings. do they save by themselves??

i've attached a couple of logs for you to examine- please if you see something suspicious! asi said, there was whitish gray smoke coming out off exhaust(it IS pretty cold here, around 30 F) and i could smell gasoline.
i still dont have a wideband, but i heard i dont necessarily need it for idle tuning, right?
i\ve also attached the last msq file, i sent you my msq that i'm using, i didnt change it much(only in the tuning VE 1 table), but JUST IN CASE.
THANKS!

here are the log files:
http://files-upload.com/files/564678/fw ... ngams1.zip
dont mind the strage filename!!:)

kennman · Post by **kennman** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:27 am

has anybody checked out my suspicious logfiles?

Matt Cramer · Post by **Matt Cramer** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 8:39 am

The trouble is, with just a narrow band O2 sensor, there won't be much of anything that people can check in the data log.

kennman · Post by **kennman** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:51 am

Matt Cramer wrote:The trouble is, with just a narrow band O2 sensor, there won't be much of anything that people can check in the data log.

darn...

okay, have just talked to a friend and he will lend me his wideband on friday, and i can record some datalogs during the weekend!
thanks matt:)

kennman · Post by **kennman** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 4:45 pm

unfortunately, the car doesnt work anymore.
s***.

I dont know what happened. It was okay and drivable on saturday, and on sunday I decided to put MS in charge of ignition too.
So I CUT the 3wires going from stock ECU to my double coil connector
diagram:

and connected the two MS spark output wires (through two vb921 modules), wire/pin #36 to spark A (pin#2 on connector-coil side) and wire/pin #31 to spark B(pin#3 on connector-again, coil side)
this information i got from Matt from DIYautotune.com:

The notes on the build sheet take precedence over the wiring diagram -
the diagram is kind of a one size fits all diagram. You'd connect pin 36
to pin 2 of the coil, and pin 31 (spark B) to pin 3 on the coil.

I already have my CKP sensor INPUT wired up from the beginning, when doing the installation:

1. The CKP sensor: there are 3 wires- one is ground and the other two are signal wires.

Looking at the provided diagram,

it looks like pins 2&3 will be your + and -
for the actual sensor. pin 1 looks like it's for shielding.

Wire 2 as - to DB37 pin 7 and 3 as + to DB37 pin 24

MS obviously got a proper INPUT signal when I used it for fuel only (i was told MS needs a tach input signal also when only controlling fuel, right? SO if it worked, i assume my input VR sensor is wired up properly!)

OKAY, now to my problem.

After I disconnected stock ECU ignition from the coils and ran 2 ignition output wires from MS to my coils,
I COULDNT GET my ENGINE TO START!!!

It was cranking, but wouldnt start or even cough!

I had all the right spark settings (posted at the bottom of the post).

The thing is, after this NON working I connected things back to where they were before, so MS running fuel only, and MS tach input wires (pin#24 and #7) split into CKP sensor wiring, and RECONNECTED stock ECU- to -coil wires.

CAR STILL is cranking, but again I cant get it to run! Not even idle!!

What could I have done wrong? Could I have fried anything? I checked resistance of my double coils and everything seems to be okay.

Do you have any suggestions on what is going on?

I'm clueless... Obviously, when I cut the wires from stock ECU to coils and run MS wires to those coils, something must have happened. It's so wierd, the car waas DRIVABLE a night before!(when only on MS fuel control)
I'd assume when I'd wire everything back to as it was, it would run again, but DOESNT!
p.s.: i checked if i have spark- i unplugged the spark cables, unbolted sparks, and cranked the car with spark outside- there was no spark. I inspected coil resistance, secondary coil resistance, CKP sensor resistance, and EVERYTHING was normal values.
Funny, when cranking with sparks inside, i thought the sparks will get wet from the fuel, but they didnt. I could smell gasoline though.
...
HELP please!!

spark settings:

Crank
RPM 300

Spark settings
Trigger angle 60
cranking timing Time based
Inverted Yes
Trim angle 0

Code base functions
Generic wheel all others off
led 17 and 19 are spark outputs all others off

Wheel decoder settings
Base teeth 60 (tried 58 didnt change anything and everything i have read says to put in the full amount)
Missing teeth
-2
Trigger a 12
trigger return a 20
trig b 42
trig return b 50

Dwell is on
6.0ms cranking
4.0 ms running
.1ms discharge

Jumpers are set for VR sensor and 2nd vb921 for direct coil drive

kennman · Post by **kennman** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 5:39 am

anybody???

Matt Cramer · Post by **Matt Cramer** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:48 am

I've sent you an email, but just to follow up on the possibility it's flooded:

Have you managed to get it to start again?

If it is not starting, what inputs are working correctly - RPM, temperature, etc? Do the injectors fire as they should?

kennman · Post by **kennman** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:54 am

well looks like my CKP sensor is dead. That could explain I get no RPM signal during cranking, no spark and no fuel injecting because MS thinks the engine doesnt move. Could this be true??
Igor

Matt Cramer · Post by **Matt Cramer** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:40 am

Yes, nothing else is going to work until you get the RPM signal working.