Jaguar V12

[jsmcortina]

Semi-sequential is meaning that the events are timed and relate to a cylinder but happen every 360 degrees (not every 720 degrees like fully sequential.) It is like comparing wasted-spark with COP.

James

[racingmini_mtl]

That also means that each injector output controls 2 injectors (for 2 cylinders) again like wasted spark.

Jean

[StevenD57]

Do the the two cylinders have to be particular ones? I.E. does it have to be two cylinders that are in a certain relationship to each other in the firing order? Or can two cylinders be chosen that are similar in air flow rates and then the injector fuel flow rates for those two cylinders adjusted to try an optimize things?

[jsmcortina]

They should be ones that are 360 degrees apart to run in real semi-sequential.

James

[tobmag]

Just to confirm I'm thinking right; when you run fully sequential its 1 squirt/720 does that mean you can also sett when the injection puls should start?
When should it start , a certain degree before the inlet valve open or?

Today I have my injectors hooked up as origional meaning they are following the firing order not just A and B bank.
The old D-jet was 2 squirts altering with start of injection about 40 degrees before 1st inlet valve opens according to firing order.

Im running 4 squirts altering today meaning I should get half of the fuel during intake stroke and the 2nd on expansion stroke, well all depending on what cylinder you reffer to

So if running semi sequntial why pull them 360 apart when you will have almost 2 cylinders on the intake stroke at the same time?


BR//Tobbe

[StevenD57]

Tobbe:
Where did you place your six coil drivers and where did they get wired up to? I see other people have added an extra DB9 socket to the case to bring out extra I/O bits. See the first post with a diagram and photos of a MS1 with the VB921 coil drivers wired to an additional DB9 mounted on one end of the case under the board and the two VB921 coil drivers mounted under the board as well.

http://www.e30tech.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25663

I know Neville in New Zealand has mounted his coil driver chips completely external to the Megasquirt case. In fact he used an old case from a Crane XR700 electronic ignition system. I guess I need to figure out how all six of these chips are connected to the MS board.

[tobmag]

Steven.

I guess I need to figure out how all six of these chips are connected to the MS board.

No only the VB921 are in the extra box

I bought my box from a guy in UK so he has mounted the ignition drivers in a separate box, could be smaller but works ok...Its fitted on the bulk head.

Spark out will be on ;
D14
D15
D16
JS11
JS4
JS5



BR//Tobbe

[jsmcortina]

Just ask Phil ! As you bought the install from him, he'll tell you how it is wired up.

James

[tobmag]

Just ask Phil ! As you bought the install from him, he'll tell you how it is wired up.

Yep bought it from Phil and I do know how its wired up so .....???

BR//Tobbe

[prolepsis]

Hi there,

It's good to see a thread just for the Jag v12! Hopefully it will stay alive with updates as people make progress.

I've been looking at MS for a couple of years now and have been inspired by the results of some of the Jag v12 installations mentioned in this thread. My motivation is to be able to discard the Lucas ignition and all the associated plumbing and valves and have the v12 perform and look even better than factory standard. I'm still in the planning stage of my implementation but have gone as far as installing a 36-1 timing wheel when I was doing some other work on the front of the engine.

I was waiting for the next incarnation after MS 2 and it looks as though the MS3 + MS3X will be a good set up, although it would be really nice to able to do full sequential first up! Mind you, that would bring with it a bunch of new headaches.

From some things I have read here it seems as though it is possible to run pairs of LS coils directly from the logic level ignition outputs on MS3X for a wasted spark set up. Alternatively, one could use external igniters with 'ordinary' coil packs. I'm wondering if anybody has experience or knowledge of how the LS coils (or similar) would perform with the v12 in wasted spark? Are there any issues that I need to be aware of? This might be a good set up in preparation for a future MS with full v12 sequential capability, as mentioned in an earlier post.

Also, can anyone advise about other LS style coils, i.e. coils with internal igniters that aren't the GM models?

Now what I need most is the free time to do all this MS stuff!

[warrjon]

Great to find this thread. I have just purchased the DESC from Philip to run dual EDIS6 on my XJS. My car is a Marelli but I want to turbo it so MS-II and EDIS seemed to be a good place to start.

TO run full sequential ignition and injection you will need a cam home sensor to time all of instances from. There is no real benefit in running sequential injection especially as there is only 1 O2 sensor per bank, the only benefit in sequential injection is in the emission output at low engine speeds from the research I have done.

Semi-sequential as some one posted earlier is really batch fire injection (and wasted spark) just with the batches made smaller. Jaguar had only 2 injection pules so fired 6 injectors at once. I was planning on 4 groups of 3.

[MysticSmoke]

Newbie alert!
I have a 1994 Jaguar 6.0 V12 engine being rebuilt (stock) and am interested in what MS to choose. The project came with a new (unused) Electromotive TEC1 V12 set up, so I've got the 60-2 trigger wheel, 1 pickup, two DFU coil packs, and some sensors. I'm disinclined to use the TEC1 though, seeing as how much more user support there is on the web for MS systems.
Where to start this MS investigative journey, and purchase a kit?
Thanks!

[Matt Cramer]

Most of your MS variants could read that trigger wheel directly and drive the DFUs through internal ignition modules that you add during assembly. You'd want a V3.0 or V3.57 board, but this could be done with MS1, MS2, or MS3, depending on your budget and what other needs you may have.

[facelvega]

Greetings, all…

I am starting a project to bring back to life my ’73 Jaguar E-Type. It is a NA 5.3 liter V12. My plan is to go to EFI using MS3. While I may achieve this as others have done (EDIS, semi-sequential), my hope is to go full sequential COP with custom intake and single throttle. I look forward to learning a lot here, and hopefully sharing progress as I am able to make it....

Cheers!

[sowabar]

I am running 86 XJS HE with MS2Extra, 60-2 wheel, Hall sensor, 1WBO2, electric fan controlled through spare output, spark control through locked distributor and 12 2.5Ohm injectors (6 per bank).

To my surprise, with no ballast resistors, those 6 injectors run something on the order of peak 8.5Amp @13.5V. They seem to open and close reliably, although recently I failed my flyback circuit after 5 years of running (seems like component failure).

I am planning to switch to 6 x wasted spark and get rid of the distributor at all later this year, I am not sure if I want to go through the complexity of dual EDIS setup Phil pioneered. I was considering COP, but since this is SOHC valvetrain, the plugs already stick out in the valley...with COP they would need some additional structure for support.

My configuration was super easy and engine became way more robust after gutting out all the "federal" equipment - airpump, about 10 valves and solenoids, and 10ft of vacuum plumbing. Removing those 10 components avoided probably 30 to 50 potential failure modes. First start was very encouraging: this thing will idle stable at 350rpm with fire every 60 deg it is very forgiving of bad idle tune.

I will be happy to help anyone getting started with this engine setup.

Bart

[facelvega]

I'm have just started, and I am backing away from COP too... Not a lot of room around the intake runners. EDIS is looking better to me now....

[UrSoJag]

Hi, (long time listener ,first time caller).

I have recently ( 10 months ago is still recent to me) purchased a 85' xjs v12 HE.
It's a wonderful car, that desperately needs modernized with more accurate timing. I've read alot about the ms and am ready to 'do it to it'.
I would definitely need some assistance from the community here.
I plan to initially keep the distributor but later switch to wasted spark.

Is there a reason to use ms2 vs ms3 for this application?

[dontz125]

The MS3 code now supports full 12-channel sequential spark and injection; you do have to add 4+4 drivers to what the MS3x board brings to the party. See this thread - http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 25&t=39072

[UrSoJag]

Thanks for that mate!

[knastenrad]

With a MS3X , 36-1 triggerwheel and LS2 coils in wastespark , i do not need a cam sensor right?
just set the :
"Number of Cylinders" to 12
use the 6 first spark outputs
and wire 2 and 2 coils(the ones that are at TDC at the same time) to the spark outputs?