Newbie Here -98 MR2 3sgte with pics!!!

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pit_celica
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Re: Newbie Here -98 MR2 3sgte with pics!!!

Post by pit_celica »

Hi,

I agree with you that the MS3 is the easiest platform to use if you want a plug-and-play ECU. Simply use a sotck ECU female receptacle and do a small adapter harness (3SGTE receptacle/DB37).

I don't know why you should need VVT, the 3SGTE do not have it (you seem to have a 3rd gen by looking at the top-mount ST205 WTA intercooler). Unless you bolted a 3SGE VVTi head on your 3SGTE block, you do not have VVTi. If you have a 2nd gen, maybe you are reffering to the TVIS (variable intake runner geometry). If this is the case, you only need an ON/OFF output to drive the TVIS solenoid as it isn't PWM modulated. The MS2 can do that pretty easily (output ports settings).

Either way, It's nice to see another 3SGTE with a Megasquirt ECU (soon to be).

If you want more info on my setup : http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 04&t=39385

Sam
benckj
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Re: Newbie Here -98 MR2 3sgte with pics!!!

Post by benckj »

Thnaks for that Sam. You are correct its not VVTI just an earlier varible cam Toyota set-up. Will have a look at your set-up shortly which I'm sure will be inspirational.
Toyota MR2 98 3sgte
MSPNP2 with 3.57 mainboard
Innovate WB O2 & soon to be external GM 3 bar MAP
FTDI USB interface on SD Android 5.1 head unit
TD05SL2-18g with external WG
HKS EBC running 17psi boost.
A2W IC with WI 50/50 meth/water
benckj
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Re: Newbie Here -98 MR2 3sgte with pics!!!

Post by benckj »

4 years later and here I go.

Finally took the plunge and bought a used MSPNP2 v1.0 which was previously on a gen 2 MR2 3sgte in the States. Received the EMS a couple few days ago and trying to get my head around any changes I need to make between the gen 2 and my gen 3 set-ups. I had emailed Matt Cramer and he stated the only mod was too;
apply the AC Enable jumper on J9 and move the Low Speed Fuel Pump jumper on J11. These are solderless pull off jumpers inside the case and make putting it on a 3rd gen engine easy
.

So I take it I'll add a jumper on J9 and then add another on for J11 except not sure which pins as there are 3 (must be middle to one sideJ10-A6 or J10-C1). Can any one confirm that the other jumpers are in correct position?

Hope to install over the Easter break along with an Innovate O2 wideband for active tuning. Will initially use a laptop for tuning but will hopefully get my spare Android tablet connected and run Tunerstudio as well as Shadowdash. Blue tooth would be nice but a hardwire serial connection is probably more stable.

Not sure why the MSPNP2 has 4 connection plugs when my OEM plugs has 3. One must be used for something else??

Clipped wires on the options plug. Will need to figure which pins these were for as assuming IAT and maybe boost control? Not planning to initially use any until I get a handle on software configuration and standard wiring. There are many Link followers where I live and they don't think MS will work.

Image

Image

Any help is appreciated.

Jim
Toyota MR2 98 3sgte
MSPNP2 with 3.57 mainboard
Innovate WB O2 & soon to be external GM 3 bar MAP
FTDI USB interface on SD Android 5.1 head unit
TD05SL2-18g with external WG
HKS EBC running 17psi boost.
A2W IC with WI 50/50 meth/water
prof315
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Re: Newbie Here -98 MR2 3sgte with pics!!!

Post by prof315 »

Documentation is here: https://www.diyautotune.com/product/meg ... ywtm_78211 It will have all of the info concerning the extra I/O plug..... The reason there are 4 sockets on the main connector is that the connector is used for many applications and not all of them use all the sockets
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Re: Newbie Here -98 MR2 3sgte with pics!!!

Post by Matt Cramer »

prof315 wrote:Documentation is here: https://www.diyautotune.com/product/meg ... ywtm_78211 It will have all of the info concerning the extra I/O plug..... The reason there are 4 sockets on the main connector is that the connector is used for many applications and not all of them use all the sockets
Yep. It was cheaper for us to stock just the "fully loaded" version of the connector and a matching endplate for it than to buy a half dozen different variations of it. We often bring out optional I/O on unused connectors, but you don't have to do anything with the unused plug.
Matt Cramer -1966 Dodge Dart slant six running on MS3X
benckj
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Re: Newbie Here -98 MR2 3sgte with pics!!!

Post by benckj »

Makes sense, just threw me for a second when I matched up the connectors thinking that gen 2's may have been different. Starting to gather my materials together so I can install EMS + wideband over Easter. Been shooting flames form tail pipe so will be nice to utilise this fuel.

I notice that the v1.2 lower PCB in the manual is slightly different than mine. I have the additional jumpers which Matt recommended altering on J9 and J11 as above. Still don't know which position (A6 or C16) this should be installed.

http://www.megasquirtpnp.com/docs/image ... pers12.jpg

Here's a glitch to note for the young players. When using Windows 8.1 and printing a v1.2 manual displayed but once printed v1.3 doc come out. Couldn't figure out why my hardcopy I had at home didn't match my unit. Firefox works fine. As mine has a v1.2 main board with a different parent PCB I must have a slight variant of the two versions?
Last edited by benckj on Tue Mar 22, 2016 8:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Toyota MR2 98 3sgte
MSPNP2 with 3.57 mainboard
Innovate WB O2 & soon to be external GM 3 bar MAP
FTDI USB interface on SD Android 5.1 head unit
TD05SL2-18g with external WG
HKS EBC running 17psi boost.
A2W IC with WI 50/50 meth/water
benckj
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Re: Newbie Here -98 MR2 3sgte with pics!!!

Post by benckj »

Quick question regarding serial line configuration- Have searched.

I would like to run a permanent cable from MSPNP to cab and but cannot find cable long enough so will need to make myself. Is the cable a straight feed through 9 pin using all pins or a null modem type? Does it need to be shielded if running along other cables which may have induction?

Intention is to use laptop for tuning directly into MSPNP then use in car when driving and utlimately use a USB interface onto Android tablet for Shawdowdash.
Toyota MR2 98 3sgte
MSPNP2 with 3.57 mainboard
Innovate WB O2 & soon to be external GM 3 bar MAP
FTDI USB interface on SD Android 5.1 head unit
TD05SL2-18g with external WG
HKS EBC running 17psi boost.
A2W IC with WI 50/50 meth/water
Matt Cramer
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Re: Newbie Here -98 MR2 3sgte with pics!!!

Post by Matt Cramer »

Use a sheilded straight-through cable.
Matt Cramer -1966 Dodge Dart slant six running on MS3X
DaveEFI
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Re: Newbie Here -98 MR2 3sgte with pics!!!

Post by DaveEFI »

benckj wrote:Quick question regarding serial line configuration- Have searched.

I would like to run a permanent cable from MSPNP to cab and but cannot find cable long enough so will need to make myself. Is the cable a straight feed through 9 pin using all pins or a null modem type? Does it need to be shielded if running along other cables which may have induction?

Intention is to use laptop for tuning directly into MSPNP then use in car when driving and utlimately use a USB interface onto Android tablet for Shawdowdash.
You only need twin screened for MS serial, unless you need the 5v (unlikely). I used some decent microphone cable here for that. Runs about 20 ft from the PC to the workbench. Used the same stuff in my car - about 3 ft before the Serial to USB converter. Lives in the glovebox - saves having to scrabble around connecting to the MS when I want to use the laptop.
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benckj
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Re: Newbie Here -98 MR2 3sgte with pics!!!

Post by benckj »

Thanks for the info. I will start with my short test cable and install a longer shielded version later on. Take it the MS will need all 9 pins or can I shortcut and only connect the pins required? This saves trying to find a data cable with additional cores.
Toyota MR2 98 3sgte
MSPNP2 with 3.57 mainboard
Innovate WB O2 & soon to be external GM 3 bar MAP
FTDI USB interface on SD Android 5.1 head unit
TD05SL2-18g with external WG
HKS EBC running 17psi boost.
A2W IC with WI 50/50 meth/water
benckj
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Re: Newbie Here -98 MR2 3sgte with pics!!!

Post by benckj »

Nevermind I found a 12 core cable which I used 9 for the serial and 2 cores for my O2 sensor + ground. Planning to terminate the wideband O2 at EMS ground and the #15 wire from options port off MSPNP. This keeps them at the same reference. Agree?

Serial DB9 port will be mounted next to wideband MXL gauge in glove box so I can use short jumper off this point to laptop or tablet. I like the idea of keeping the gauge from view but can open box if I need to see while tuning. With any luck I'll have my Android tablet running Shadowdash with all readings in one place. Not concerned about Bluetooth but understand this is another option should I want to use wireless.

Getting there, now the work starts. Wideband first then MSPNP install.
Toyota MR2 98 3sgte
MSPNP2 with 3.57 mainboard
Innovate WB O2 & soon to be external GM 3 bar MAP
FTDI USB interface on SD Android 5.1 head unit
TD05SL2-18g with external WG
HKS EBC running 17psi boost.
A2W IC with WI 50/50 meth/water
kjones6039
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Re: Newbie Here -98 MR2 3sgte with pics!!!

Post by kjones6039 »

benckj wrote:Take it the MS will need all 9 pins or can I shortcut and only connect the pins required?
You don't need all those pins for simple serial communications! All you need is Rx, Tx and Gnd (that's only 3 pins). That is why Dave recommended twin screened Mic cable.

Ken
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benckj
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Re: Newbie Here -98 MR2 3sgte with pics!!!

Post by benckj »

Well thanks for that Ken. I asked that question before but didn't get a definitive answer. Some 232 Comms require full duplex with handshaking to work properly. I didn't think it would but easy enough to supply all pins once I located the cable. Nothing in the MS manual on pin allocation.
Toyota MR2 98 3sgte
MSPNP2 with 3.57 mainboard
Innovate WB O2 & soon to be external GM 3 bar MAP
FTDI USB interface on SD Android 5.1 head unit
TD05SL2-18g with external WG
HKS EBC running 17psi boost.
A2W IC with WI 50/50 meth/water
benckj
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Re: Newbie Here -98 MR2 3sgte with pics!!!

Post by benckj »

Installed MXL wideband and cabling to support using laptop in cab. Taking car for quick run to test O2 before I swap in the MSPNP today and fire car up. I noticed in one part of manual it states the narrow band O2 must be disconnected if using wideband. Also plan to retain Toyota IAT initially although it seems common to replace with GM version. Haven't found much info on this.

Still never received a reply on the fuel pump jumper position on J11 so figured I have a 50/50 chance in getting correct. My PCB appears different than others do not sure about all the extra pins. This EMS was purchased and run on a gen 2 3sgte so should require little mods for my gen 3 platform.

Any help is appreciated.

Jim
Toyota MR2 98 3sgte
MSPNP2 with 3.57 mainboard
Innovate WB O2 & soon to be external GM 3 bar MAP
FTDI USB interface on SD Android 5.1 head unit
TD05SL2-18g with external WG
HKS EBC running 17psi boost.
A2W IC with WI 50/50 meth/water
benckj
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Re: Newbie Here -98 MR2 3sgte with pics!!!

Post by benckj »

Reading through a long thread in the MR2oc forum regarding release of the MSPNP2 for MR2's and I'm getting a little concerned. Answered my question regarding narrowband O2 but there was considerable discussions without much resolution on the ECU pinout differences between the gen 2 and gen 3 3sgte OEM wiring harness. Haven't got to the bottom of it as there was several links to other places which were either dead or out of date.

Forum thread with small discussion (page 5)
http://www.mr2oc.com/40-mega-squirt/450 ... r2s-5.html

From Matt Cramer-post 85
The only real barrier between Gen 2 and Gen 3 3SGTEs is a different ECU pinout. We're working on covering more of these and getting the '93-'95 Gen 2 and the Gen 3 are on the to-do list.
(Got a test car we could borrow for a month or two? We're in the Atlanta area and so far haven't rounded up test cars for these. Email kevin@diyautotune.com if you've got one. We'd also be interested in a '88-'89 4AGZE.)
Looks like I have more homework to do before I'm confident in plugging the MSPNP into my harness.

Link with pin-out discussion differences for reference;
http://www.mr2oc.com/227-3sgte-turbo-fo ... n-etc.html

jim
Toyota MR2 98 3sgte
MSPNP2 with 3.57 mainboard
Innovate WB O2 & soon to be external GM 3 bar MAP
FTDI USB interface on SD Android 5.1 head unit
TD05SL2-18g with external WG
HKS EBC running 17psi boost.
A2W IC with WI 50/50 meth/water
Matt Cramer
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Re: Newbie Here -98 MR2 3sgte with pics!!!

Post by Matt Cramer »

You have the ECU that I said was in development at the time I wrote that post. The '93-'95 MSPNP can also fit Gen 3 motors.
Matt Cramer -1966 Dodge Dart slant six running on MS3X
benckj
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Re: Newbie Here -98 MR2 3sgte with pics!!!

Post by benckj »

I understand but apart form the J9 & 11 jumpers is there anything else I need to change on this older PCB for correct PNP operation? Is a GM IAT required or will stock suffice as unlike the gen 2 MAF a gen3 temp sensor is located within plenum?
The internal PCB indicates its a TS9395 which looks to be the same model as the 93-95.

I'll probably start a new thread in the MR2 forum as a few others have indicated they would like to run the MSPNP if the mystery around gen3 models is removed. Link's are being promoted especially since they came out with a model which is a PNP for gen3's. Previous threads are out of date and very confusing because it brings the other 3sgte (ST185, 205, gen 4's) into the discussion.

I have started car and it runs from cold if I hold throttle down. It cuts out below 1500rpm so need to trail an IAT connection and adjust VR sensitivity to see where I get. Should be able to source something here.

Thanks for your assistance.

Jim
Toyota MR2 98 3sgte
MSPNP2 with 3.57 mainboard
Innovate WB O2 & soon to be external GM 3 bar MAP
FTDI USB interface on SD Android 5.1 head unit
TD05SL2-18g with external WG
HKS EBC running 17psi boost.
A2W IC with WI 50/50 meth/water
benckj
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Re: Newbie Here -98 MR2 3sgte with pics!!!

Post by benckj »

Spoke to the Tuner at dyno shop and he doesn't believe idle issue will be with IAT or VR adjust but more likely mechanical timing. I will spin around dizzy first to see if it will idle better before moving onto next step.

Jim
Toyota MR2 98 3sgte
MSPNP2 with 3.57 mainboard
Innovate WB O2 & soon to be external GM 3 bar MAP
FTDI USB interface on SD Android 5.1 head unit
TD05SL2-18g with external WG
HKS EBC running 17psi boost.
A2W IC with WI 50/50 meth/water
benckj
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Re: Newbie Here -98 MR2 3sgte with pics!!!

Post by benckj »

Update on progress.

Managed to get engine running a bit better by increasing the fuel in VE table plus increasing PWD to 7 in idle control. Set mechanical timing to 10 and installed GM IAT in plenum. Removed jumper in MSPNP from J11 to keep FP in 'high' mode although I dont understand why this would be different from the stock PNP configuration as set-up for 3sgte gen 2.

Finially got other laptop connected through serial-USB converter. Been playing around with a few settings however I still have a miss at idle which I can't sort out. Fuel pressure drops to 20psi so thinking that is problem. Doesn't happen above 1500rpm but have not had for test drive yet to confirm cruise mode.

Copy of current msq configuration.


Jim
Toyota MR2 98 3sgte
MSPNP2 with 3.57 mainboard
Innovate WB O2 & soon to be external GM 3 bar MAP
FTDI USB interface on SD Android 5.1 head unit
TD05SL2-18g with external WG
HKS EBC running 17psi boost.
A2W IC with WI 50/50 meth/water
benckj
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Re: Newbie Here -98 MR2 3sgte with pics!!!

Post by benckj »

Out of desperation decided to start over with the basic tune TS9395-321 from MS website. Seems to make engine run better with more fueling across the board. Still have the miss at idle and TS keeps dropping off line when taking for a drive. Using the proper USB-serial interface from MS so don't think that's the problem.Frustrating all the same as my old clunker laptop with serial port doesnt miss a beat,

Below is the current tune and datalog during stationary engine running at idle and with little acceleration. If someone could help with miss as notice fuel pressure dropping when it occures. Have removed j11 internal jumper to keep pump in high mode.

Have an appointment with Tuner this Friday and track day on 7th May. Not feeling entirely confident yet especially on a trial run had car start bucking and then cut out on me. Started back up OK but still makes me nervous.
Toyota MR2 98 3sgte
MSPNP2 with 3.57 mainboard
Innovate WB O2 & soon to be external GM 3 bar MAP
FTDI USB interface on SD Android 5.1 head unit
TD05SL2-18g with external WG
HKS EBC running 17psi boost.
A2W IC with WI 50/50 meth/water
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