Newbie Here -98 MR2 3sgte with pics!!!

[benckj]

Just a quick note to introduce myself.

Looking at stand alone options for my MR2 with typical bolt on mods. Not convinced that MS is the way to go just yet so doing my homework on the best options to persue. I like the versatility, software and price of the MS ECU but ned to dive into the details before I take the plunge. Convince me that MS is the way to go.

Few pics of my ride as it usually gets more help if you include with introduction.





98 MR2 3sgte JDM
2.5" exhaust with bypass valve
4" intake
A2W IC from ST205
HKS EBC-S running 16.5psi
dyno = 248whp @ 14.5psi (AFR<9.5 after peak hp)
Goal = 275whp max with nice driving characteristics.

jim

[benckj]

What no replies!

Finished some intake & exhaust mods over Christmas break so going to log my AFR's and then decide if I need to go stand-alone. Been evaluating the MS1 & 2 processors and if I need to go the extra for the better one. Apart form 16x16 data tables not sure it will be much benifit for my set-up. Any comment?

jim

[Matt Cramer]

That's a very clean MR2.

We have found that MS2 works considerably better with the Nippondenso dual wheel trigger than MS1 - MS1 has to use a single processor interrupt for two sensors, but MS2 has enough interrupts to run the distributor properly. I spent literally months trying to straighten out a dual wheel setup with MS1 on a Honda Civic. Managed to get an MS2 up and reading the distributor cleanly throughout the rev range in a few hours - and this was a car where the wiring was so flakey the stock ECU kept throwing codes about a bad distributor!

[benckj]

Thanks for the reply Matt. Any real advantage in running a MS3 over the MS2 for my 3sgte? Real advantage I can see is 16x16 matrix tables but unsure what other valid reasons for going the extra $$.

jim

[Matt Cramer]

Thanks for the reply Matt. Any real advantage in running a MS3 over the MS2 for my 3sgte? Real advantage I can see is 16x16 matrix tables but unsure what other valid reasons for going the extra $$.

jim

It's easier to do sequential injection and individual cylinder fuel trim. Other things include onboard data logging with an SD card, and gear specific boost control. It depends on just how high end a system you want.

[benckj]

Not really looking at high end tuning for this car. I'm some 6 hours drive from a decent dyno shop so most of my tuning will be done at home. Probably the only future feature I would like is duel data maps for running Ethonol. We don't have this fuel available at the pumps but I am experimantating with making my own.

Car is basically a daily driver with some drag/track use. I like to run the various tracks we have around the country and my wife does the drag racing. Engine internals as drive train will remain stock so max hp I could hope for even with stand alone is 350whp. Many other MR2 owners have achieved this with the stock ECU. Currently, I'm at 250whp and am hoping to get to 275 with some minor mods. Not really concerned about datalogging or sequencial injection.

Reliability is probably more important than having all the bells and whistles but yet I do want to future proof as much as I can. If this means spending some extra money now rather than full replacement a year or two later I'd be happy to do this as long as I'm not buying a new device which a host of problems. Given that would you recomend a MS2 model?

[benckj]

Have now bought a second ECU so I can butcher up box and use connections as a break-out box for MS. Still un-decided about weather to go MS2 or MS3. I would like an intellegent unit which won't limit me in the future. Only require a basic tune but would like to datalog and use an auto-tune function. The forum seems to be loaded with problems which mostly relate to MS3 and tuner software.

jimb

[jsmcortina]

The forum seems to be loaded with problems which mostly relate to MS3 and tuner software.
jimb

Could you point some out?

James

[dontz125]

The forum seems to be loaded with problems which mostly relate to MS3 and tuner software.

This statement is not incorrect - in a literal sense, the forums ARE loaded with people having problems with various models of MS and TS; MS3 is the newest, fanciest version, and is still in development and expansion, so there are more 'learning curve' problems. That said, the statement is incomplete to the point of being unfair.

The forums are ALSO loaded with helpful people who know a great deal about the product and software and are able to guide the vast majority of those with problems to a successful solution, with assistance ranging from helpful hints to in-depth analysis and step-by-step instructions. Among those helpful people are major vendors of the product and supplementary devices, the actual developers of the controller firmware who react to bugs and glitches with astonishing speed as well as responding to wish lists and feature requests, AND the guy who writes and develops the tuning software. His response to baffled wailing, requests and suggestions is the same as the MS firmware developers.

I defy you to find that kind of support with ANY other product of ANY kind, not just aftermarket ECUs.

[benckj]

Perhaps I generalised the statement as I've only skimmed over the various posts to get an understanding on what to expect. I can appreciate that with any new product you will have some 'teething' problems. Being a newbie I am not in the position to buy a product which is being developed and that was the basis of my concern.

[jsmcortina]

One thought to bear in mind is that almost all aftermarket ECUs are being developed and refined. However in the Megasquirt world that development is openly discussed so you get to hear about any issues that might have been hidden or "brushed under the carpet" with other products. It is also the nature of any support forum that you will get to read of problems, not many users will sign up and create an account just to post "works well for me."

There are many, many vehicles driving around on all Megasquirt variants. Megasquirt-3 was released in 2009 and the stable 1.0 firmware was released a year ago.

James

[dontz125]

There is a fine line between 'learning curve' and 'teething problems.' There are very few technical products out there that are NOT still being developed - cars, computers, toaster ovens, coffee makers ...

The MS3 isn't quite three years year old, but already has firmware that can (truthfully!) be described as 'stable'. The MS2 processor card has been around since 2005(?); the card itself is static, but the firmware is still being developed and expanded and improved - there is a steady flow of ideas and improvements flowing back and forth between the MS2/Extra firmware and its heir, MS3. Both platforms are very good at what they do. The question then becomes - what do you WANT it to do? The MS2 cannot do sequential spark and injection on a V12 (the MS3 can), but it does a fantastic job on a 4-cyl. If you are willing to accept batch injection and distributor spark, the MS2 COULD handle that V12. The MS3 allows stand-alone datalogging with an on-board SD card, but the MS2 can still datalog to a connected laptop in the car. Both allow live tuning through the use of TunerStudio software on your laptop.

How many cylinders in your engine? (sorry - I'm a bike guy)
What degree of control do you want over spark and injection? What degree can you accept?

Speed costs money - how fast do you want to go?

[benckj]

Thanks for the comments, all good info and gives me confidence to move forward.

To be honest I'm not looking for much with MS. Need to control a 4 cylinder turbo charged sports car with standard distribitor,varible induction and a few standard mods. Stock ECU is overfueling and those that turn FP pressure down generally run # 3 cylinder lean. I'd like to be able to tune the car correctly, gain some hp without sacrificing reliability. I'm a long away from a dyno shop so need to do most of the tunning myself which I feel quite capable of. Long and short of it I don't need sequencial spark but not sure if batch injection is enough. Eventually I'd like to run E85 but this will be my own blend as ist not available here.

Comments?

[dontz125]

From what you're describing, either system should do, so it sounds like it will come down to how much solder work you're prepared to do. The MS2 can do full-sequential injection for your engine, with trim-tables capable of adjusting the pulse to individual cylinders by plus or minus 12.4% - this will help your funky #3 cyl issues! Boost control is no problem. I'm not sure what you mean by 'variable induction'; is this a modulating system, or two-position? The former could be an issue.

Barring any oddness with the variable induction, the decision comes down to - how handy are you? The MS2 is far more DIY, with a little careful surgery needed on the processor card to allow the 3rd and 4th injector channels, amongst other things. The MS3 plus MS3X expansion board on a V3.57 pre-assembled main board is far more plug-and-play (and expensive), but the MS2 can be more satisfying, especially when assembled from a V3.0 kit board and a JBPerf 4-channel driver kit and a daughter card that YOU modified to do what you need.

Click on the big "Manuals" link above, and start reading!

[benckj]

Thnaks for that I'll do some more homework but does sound like the MS2 is the way for me to go. I'm an Instrument Engineer and am very competant with PCB building and repair. Just need to get my head around the firmware & software first before I select hardware.

The varibale induction is a mechanical way to advance cam position and thus valve opening as you increase RPM. VVTI is the acroynm Toyota uses to describe and as far as I'm aware is a mechanical adustment which uses ECU support. I bring it up beacuse this is one of the reasons the ECU's preform so poorley with engine management.

We have an Electrical Engineer who sells the MS2 in NZ fully assembled and provides a base tune for my engine. This seems very attractive as long as I'm aware of what I'm buying and can modify to suit my needs. He is quite happy to spec the MS to my requirments initially which is very good.

[jsmcortina]

MS3 (dev code) has fully variable VVT support for up to 4 cams.

James

[benckj]

How would MS2 handle this?

[93white3400z]

How would MS2 handle this?

It won't

[benckj]

Right, better review my requirements and do some more homework. Thanks again for your insightful info.

jim

[benckj]

Starting to get a handle on this. Although MS2 will probably do want I want in as far as engine mangement MS3 is more suitbale for fine tuning and further expnasion. Reading though the forum there are many questions and problems that people have had with both products but the degree to which they are answered means the support for these products is overwhelming.

Given my DIY attitude I think that MS3 is for me and will need to re-search the design and installation requirements. Ultimately, I will want a plug and play module which I can remove and revert back to stock should I want/need too. Playing around now with a spare ECU that I can butcher into a junction box for my upgrade.

Thanks for al the help.