Newbie Here -98 MR2 3sgte with pics!!!

[Matt Cramer]

I will need a conventional data log - the file you posted is a special purpose log for diagnosing RPM input problems.

[benckj]

Oooops. Will take another shot at it then using another log function. If it's any help I purchased the registered version of TS so I can auto-tune on the road.

Jim

[benckj]

Car running much better with the miss not as evident. Not sure why as only set-up the thermistors and tried O2 sensor. Log below of idle with slight acceleration.

[Matt Cramer]

The O2 reading looks a bit noisy - what sort of O2 sensor are you using?

The log did not show the engine fully warmed up; you'll want to make sure it is warmed up before working on the main fuel tables and AE. Once you have those tuned right with the engine hot, you can come back and dial in warm up settings.

[benckj]

Running an Innovate MTX- LC2 so should be steady. Noticed I can't set and store cal in tools when selected. It is also reading approx 1% AFR difference richer on TS than gauge. Need to go back and check settings, etc as its seems data not being stored under tools/sensors/ AFR.. Not sure about the noise issue though as this sort of looks like induced on the wiring. Used a 12core cable to run serial connect from MSPNP to cab with 2 of the cores used for O2 sensor & ground.

If I had to guess the MSPNP requires serial DP9 pin connected as;
pin 2= TX
pin 3=RX
pin 5= ground
pin 9= return??

Engine was fully warmed up and Toyota coolant temp sensor selected so will need to look into that as well. Going to see Tuner today to hopefully get sorted. Need to start driving and tunning over the weekend!

[benckj]

Quick question;

Values for Analog 1;
0v=7.35AFR
5v=22.39
Do these number need to be manually entered into the O2 table under tools? I simply selected the sensor LC1-LC2 default and figured MS would enter the cal values. Guess I could select Custom Linear WB and enter cal. Think I also set the input location to Local? Is this correct.

Same goes for coolant and IAT. Selected Toyota and GM models without confirming cal values.

On another note the Analog output 1 wire from O2 connected to pin 14 on options plug with sensor ground tied to pin 15. OEM O2 sensor disconnected from harness. IAT connected to pin 10 with common ground to others.

[benckj]

Spent couple hours with Tuner tweaking values in the car park. Engine is idling very nice and throttle responds much quicker. Wideband is still reading on high side and noisey. Gauge is rock solid so can only assume I'm getting induction noise on cable. As much as I hate to re-do work looks like I will replace cable with individual shielded pairs. Wish I knew which pins required on MSPNP serial connection but will determine by trial & error. Surely I'm not the only one to have this problem?

Both Tuner and I don't understand why when choosing a Wideband O2 from drop down and successfully write to controller it does not retain info. When going back into tools/calibrate AFR the selection is blanked out. Did the same on Custom WB with LC1 values listed above entered. Coolant & IAT hold values and are reading correct.

Any help appreciated. Need to get on and VEAL!

Jim

[benckj]

Limited progress over the weekend. Tried running a temp shielded cable for O2 output into MS controller before tearing out the decent cable previously installed. Didn't improve the noisy and lean readings on TS display. Can't move forward with tune until this is sorted as I need for reference. Wondering if using the Output B off Innovate MTX-L, Bosch LSU4.2 sensor would be a better option except not sure how I should calibrate in TS. Output is 1.1v=14 and 0.1v=15AFR so probably not very good option.

I am starting to understand why some others have discouraged me from going with a MS EMS stating they are very 'quirky'. There are many options to choose from and the manuals are not as detailed with explaining on what to do. Simple things like what serial cables required for connection should be shown in a diagram IMO. I'm going to sit down a and read through the relevant sections again to see if I have missed something.

Attached are the latest MQL and MSL' files. Hope some one can help sort out these basic issues?

[Matt Cramer]

The calibration data is sent one-way - it is written as a look up table, and it isn't easy for the initial data to be reconstructed from the look up table.

If you have a bad signal to noise ratio with a 0 to 5 volt signal, a 0 to 1 volt signal will give you less signal and hence a worse ratio. The first thing to do is check the wideband's ground. This is not an MS specific issue; if you send an ECU a noisy O2 signal, it will give a noisy reading. It is best if the wideband is grounded to the same location as the ECU - and if the ECU is grounded to either the battery or the engine, not to sheet metal.

[benckj]

Thank you for the reply.

All the sensor and ECU grounds go directly to one place and I've run a large 8mm2 wire from that point to the engine block. I have also upgraded all my engine-chassis grounds so there is a very high conductivity connection. Is it recommended to attach the options wire No 15 to the same ground (which I've done)?

[Matt Cramer]

What exactly is that one place?

[benckj]

The one place for grounding is the firewall next to ECU and that is directly strapped to the engine block.

I need to upload some additional pics.

Jim

[Matt Cramer]

It may be better to ground straight to the engine - I don't like grounds to sheet metal; they often cause trouble.

[benckj]

Essentially this is what has been done. I've only used the firewall mounting place to connect grounds together (MSPNP sensor common, O2 sensor, IAT sensor and main terminal to engine block). I have not connected the serial connection ground to this point which might be a good idea?

Matt can you tell me what calibration values are used in TS for the Innovate LC1-LC2 sensors?

[Matt Cramer]

This grounding topology is not ideal. First, the IAT needs to be grounded directly to the MSPNP sensor ground, not an external ground point. Try grounding the MSPNP and the wideband controller to separate lugs on the engine.

The calibration values are 0V at 0.5 lambda and 5 volts at 1.5 lambda.

[benckj]

Ok will get a chance to test system today and hopefully get to the source of the problem. Must be an interference issue between grounds even though I have them tied to a central reference. Will also eliminate all the serial lines which are not required.

Good to know O2 cal values used in MS are same as Innovate manual. My Tuner uses different figures for some reason which Ive yet to determine why. Wish the cal values were populated in the sensor cal table for reference.

[benckj]

Think I made some progress. Eliminated the serial lines not required and joined the ground wire off O2 controller to the chassis near gauge. Had some problems then connecting onto TS but managed to connect after restarting program several times. This seemed to settle down noise for some reason even though its not best practice. Set up cal as Custom WB using 6.3 at low value and this brought it very close to gauge reading.

Took car for run and ran log through the analyser. Accepted 17 changes mostly around low end then took for another blat using VEAL. Did an acceptance but still need to take for a decent cruise through full range . Plan to get as best as possible then see my Tuner during week to check through. Starting to feel more confident now for race day.

Thanks for all the help, still have a way to go.

Will attach previous tune but log too large for file attachment. Will do more tomorrow.

Simple question time, how do I increase the red line on RPM gauge? It's annoying to have it come on at 5k when mine is 7k.

[benckj]

Managed to take car for another run using VEAL. I must say I'm very impressed with the program and how easy it works. I accepted the changes and then compared to original tune. Soon realised that my Tuner had adjusted the VE tables directly but not the AFR table. Going to pop in on the way home and sit down with laptop to adjust take car for another run. May throw on dyno at end of the week if we have time.

Another quick question, does the VEAL use the AFR table even though it is not activated as target values? Can only assume it does use this matrix as it is not available elsewhere unless it runs a straight 14.7.

[Matt Cramer]

To increase the gauge redline, go to Basic Set-up -> Gauge and Settings Limits.

You can set VEAL to use its own AFR table or the AFR table in the ECU.

[benckj]

Sorry I must be a pain but no setting gauge limits on my drop downs. Running TS v2.6.19.

Have adjusted AFR table and uploaded to controller. Will take for test run and VEAL tonight.