"MS4" wishlist thread

[mr_minnis]

?? Oil pressure & temp, fuel temp don't use VR conditioning circuits. They use ADC filters.

oh my mistake. I thought you meant ADC. I'd like to use my factory VSS sensor, however to do that I would need to get a vr conditioner. Something like what Jean makes would be good but have it built onto the main board or be able to be added. Sorta like how you can add the real time clock, or knock modules to the MS3x.

[Rickster]

I agree with Jeans post above (previous page) 100%
There is no middle ground for those who want to build their own. You get to choose from the micro squirt that doesnt have enough of what you might need, you have the MS3 v3.0 or v3.57 that is too big and has really sub par connections, or you have the super (too) expensive MS3Pro variants.

Rick

[JAM]

you have the MS3 v3.0 or v3.57 that is too big and has really sub par connections,

Rick

what does this mean ?

[dontz125]

Compared with some ECUs, the MS3 is physically massive - it's not something that can be easily fitted on a bike, or even some cars.

A lot of people do NOT like the DB connectors, and is a large part of the MS line's poor reputation. That said, there has been at least one aircraft type who notes that some of the avionics modules he works on use DB connectors.

[JAM]

Compared with some ECUs, the MS3 is physically massive - it's not something that can be easily fitted on a bike, or even some cars.

A lot of people do NOT like the DB connectors, and is a large part of the MS line's poor reputation. That said, there has been at least one aircraft type who notes that some of the avionics modules he works on use DB connectors.

I see. The DB connectors down fall i would think would be the waterproof/sealed element- which the standard non-pro case is not waterproof anyway. if a person is into bikes or heavy off road which may be subject to water that would be an issue. As far as an electrical connection i was at first skeptical but after sending it through high vibration vehicles with solid motor mounts and tire shake year after year i realized its a good electrical connection. on the other hand I have shaken the SD card right out of the unit on more than one occasion- . but i would say DB are not the prettiest thing- which i think is the real complaint rather than the actual connection ?

[dontz125]

Given the existence of industrial-quality DB connectors rated to IP67 water-tightness, at this point I would suggest it's very much a prejudice left over from "I saw that connector on the back of my Commodore PET computer from 30 years ago, so it must be crap!"

[JAM]

Given the existence of industrial-quality DB connectors rated to IP67 water-tightness, at this point I would suggest it's very much a prejudice left over from "I saw that connector on the back of my Commodore PET computer from 30 years ago, so it must be crap!"

it is that way. i didn't even know they were water tight- shows what i know but i guess it doesn't matter if the case is not. I forget that they are DB connectors, i just like that the unit works good, the connections have no problems and is flexible and expandable. But i am weird like that

[dontz125]

The DB connectors provided in the MS line are NOT waterproof; there are such things out there, though.

[Rickster]

Has there been any traction on this? We desperately need an updated, cost effective solution...my 2 cents.

Rick

[DaveEFI]

Compared with some ECUs, the MS3 is physically massive - it's not something that can be easily fitted on a bike, or even some cars.

A lot of people do NOT like the DB connectors, and is a large part of the MS line's poor reputation. That said, there has been at least one aircraft type who notes that some of the avionics modules he works on use DB connectors.

They're used on broadcast equipment too - not noted for penny pinching.

They are also available from several makers in several qualities - and at differing prices. Buying the cheapest unbranded may not get the best one.

As with any connector, it is important not to exceed the rating.

They are a bit fiddly to wire correctly - but the same can be said of any small multi-pole connector. And I can think of several which are more tricky.

Other thing is it's an industry standard connector which has been available for ages and which will continue to be available from a wide variety of suppliers. Go to a more specific connector this might not be the case. Car makers can have a connector specially designed for them due to the volumes involved. It also allows then to control the price of spares.

[muythaibxr]

I agree with Jeans post above (previous page) 100%
There is no middle ground for those who want to build their own. You get to choose from the micro squirt that doesnt have enough of what you might need, you have the MS3 v3.0 or v3.57 that is too big and has really sub par connections, or you have the super (too) expensive MS3Pro variants.

Rick

Super expensive compared to what?

[Matt Cramer]

I agree with Jeans post above (previous page) 100%
There is no middle ground for those who want to build their own. You get to choose from the micro squirt that doesnt have enough of what you might need, you have the MS3 v3.0 or v3.57 that is too big and has really sub par connections, or you have the super (too) expensive MS3Pro variants.

Rick

How about a DIYPNP? 4 cylinder sequential injection, your choice of OEM automotive connector, around $460 for a kit with the sequential injection option.

[Rickster]

Super expensive compared to what?

Compared to whats actually on the board. I can buy similar PCB's & components for a fraction of the $850 for the base module. I feel that is way overpriced for what it is, a PCB and components.

Again just my 2 cents, and what has kept me from purchasing one.

Rick

[Rickster]

I agree with Jeans post above (previous page) 100%
There is no middle ground for those who want to build their own. You get to choose from the micro squirt that doesnt have enough of what you might need, you have the MS3 v3.0 or v3.57 that is too big and has really sub par connections, or you have the super (too) expensive MS3Pro variants.

Rick

How about a DIYPNP? 4 cylinder sequential injection, your choice of OEM automotive connector, around $460 for a kit with the sequential injection option.

Possibly for my next 4 cyl project, but my last 2 have been 8cyl and I really wanted full sequential.

Rick

[slow_hemi6]

Super expensive compared to what?

Compared to whats actually on the board. I can buy similar PCB's & components for a fraction of the $850 for the base module. I feel that is way overpriced for what it is, a PCB and components.

Again just my 2 cents, and what has kept me from purchasing one.

Rick

Economies of scale. It's not a raspberry pi, Those are cheap but they've also sold 4 million of those. Not hard to cover costs and make some money when you got this kind of turnover. look at gaming consoles they release at around $800 but within a few years they've sold millions and they are re-released as a newer smaller footprint and the price steadily falls to under $200. Maybe after DIY have sold their 1 millionth module they might put them on sale for us.

[racingmini_mtl]

You also have to consider that you're buying the rights to the firmware, development of said firmware, and support from the developers and vendors. Because you can buy your own board and components but you'd still need to spend a lot of time and effort on the rest before you have got an ECU and not just a pile of electronics.

Having said that I still think I raised valid points in my post.

Jean

[jsmcortina]

Yes, there's a huge difference between a pile of electronic components and a product.

James

[nismoautoxr]

strictly speaking to the DB connectors....I have been daily driving my install for 2 years now with some pretty brutal time attack duty as well. Im on and off rumble strips/gators that will just about take the rear view mirror off the windshield ...the rotors get so hot sometimes that its a challenge to hold on to the steering wheel....anybody thats seen my road atlanta sessions or TGPR sessions can attest to this LOL. I have yet to have any problems with anything on this unit including the DB connectors . I have my MS3+X attached to the rollbar mainhoop so its a direct mounting .I like the fact that its a connector that is not likely to become scarce in the event that Im at some unknown podunk town at a racetrack and need parts . It sure beats bus bar screws like a few old electromotive units I have worked with in the past (Im telling my age now).

[billr]

I usually ignore this thread, since the MS3 has more capability than I can understand or fully use. However, I gotta say... DB contacts and crimp tools are much more available and much more affordable than the "insanely expensive" tools complained about in other threads.

[dontz125]

You also have to consider that you're buying the rights to the firmware, development of said firmware, and support from the developers and vendors. Because you can buy your own board and components but you'd still need to spend a lot of time and effort on the rest before you have got an ECU and not just a pile of electronics.

By the same token, DIY sells a MS3/X + RTC + knock module for $810, and it's a ready-to-roll unit. The MS3Pro Module, at $850, still has to be fitted with a carrier board and mounting hardware, an enclosure (which may or may not require significant machining to accept the boards and include the openings), and connectors. For a full-on drag car with a V8 plus nitrous and a turbo, it may well be the non plus ultra. For someone with a simpler installation, it's over-horsed, over-designed, over-sized, and over-priced.