"MS4" wishlist thread

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turbo355
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Re: "MS4" wishlist thread

Post by turbo355 »

muythaibxr wrote:To be honest, I see no need for that one. Wire it right in the first place and it becomes a non-issue.
Had a 598 BBC last year that this would have been nice on, owner didnt know it had a 7-4 swap cam in it and the harness was complete, I had to repin the harness to get it correct major pain.
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JAM
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Re: "MS4" wishlist thread

Post by JAM »

knightrous wrote:Flexible Firing Order
Allow the ability to wire up your injector and ignition outputs without following the firing order, then set the firing order in software to make it work.

ie: INJ1/IGN1 to Cyl#1, INJ2/IGN2 to Cyl#2, INJ3/IGN3 to Cyl#3, INJ4/IGN4 to Cyl#4 etc etc

Then in TunerStudio, enter the engines firing order into a field (1,4,3,2) and the MS will do the rest (Making INJ1/IGN1 fire for Cyl#1, INJ4/IGN4 for Cyl#4 etc etc). This will make is a lot easier to wire up an MS and avoid a lot of those start up issues due to incorrect firing orders.
This is how the Holley Dominator EFI ECU works.(sorry for knowing this guys, I set it up on a friends car, but there are a few neat features on it)

I think it would have helped in my case when dealing with a sequential out of phase situation....??? http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 25&t=54172
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Re: "MS4" wishlist thread

Post by wes kiser »

It is how almost every sequential ECU works (firing order). As has been previously mentioned, firing order swaps via cam shaft are not at all uncommon in the domestic v8 world.
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Re: "MS4" wishlist thread

Post by krisr »

Yeah I'm going to agree here except extend the scope so as many/if not all, pins are flexible and not hard fixed for a certain purpose. Maybe have 'x' high current outputs for injectors and 'y' medium current for anything like relays or pwm and 'z' low current outputs for logic spark or relays. The parts BOM would be simple as all hi/med/lo outputs would be the same and as mentioned, fried output, no worries just repin and change the software, all good again and worry about it later...
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Re: "MS4" wishlist thread

Post by Peter Florance »

I think making firing order flexible may add some overhead to the code. MoTeC can do it, but at five times the price.
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Re: "MS4" wishlist thread

Post by subwoofer »

As the thread started with a wish list for the next generation, I would add that a routing matrix would be very simple to implement in programmable hardware.
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Re: "MS4" wishlist thread

Post by darkstarmedia »

I think some sort of MDS would be cool.

I would also like to see OBD2 for real-time data output so we can grab any standard scanner if we are away from a laptop to check things like sensor data.

I would imagine that the OBD2 option would be a daughter card.

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Re: "MS4" wishlist thread

Post by knightrous »

knightrous wrote:Flexible Firing Order
Allow the ability to wire up your injector and ignition outputs without following the firing order, then set the firing order in software to make it work.
Another advantage is that you could easily swap a motor from batch injection/wasted spark to semi-sequential injection to sequential injection/ignition without the requirement to rewire the car*. Just wire it up for sequential first up and you can change to which ever injection or ignition method you want later.


* pending you have the correct amount of outputs and current capability.
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Re: "MS4" wishlist thread

Post by racingmini_mtl »

knightrous wrote:
knightrous wrote:Flexible Firing Order
Allow the ability to wire up your injector and ignition outputs without following the firing order, then set the firing order in software to make it work.
Another advantage is that you could easily swap a motor from batch injection/wasted spark to semi-sequential injection to sequential injection/ignition without the requirement to rewire the car*. Just wire it up for sequential first up and you can change to which ever injection or ignition method you want later.


* pending you have the correct amount of outputs and current capability.
That's already the case with MS3 if you use the MS3X outputs.

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Enki
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Re: "MS4" wishlist thread

Post by Enki »

I know I'm a nobody here, but I thought I'd add my $0.02 anyways.

I'd really like to see a more powerful/faster processor which can handle more IO reliably, more memory/logic for multiple map switching (flex fuel, regular/sport/race modes, etc), and, obviously, more IO connections (CAN is fine too, though).

My goal is to monitor/log just about everything in/about the car on one (or more) digital dashboards.

Apologies if any of the above is redundant or already exists; while I'm pretty sure I've got a decent handle on what the MS3x can do, I haven't picked one up to play with yet (nothing to plug it in to until I get further along in my build).

Thanks!
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Re: "MS4" wishlist thread

Post by Peter Florance »

Enki wrote:I know I'm a nobody here, but I thought I'd add my $0.02 anyways.

I'd really like to see a more powerful/faster processor which can handle more IO reliably, more memory/logic for multiple map switching (flex fuel, regular/sport/race modes, etc), and, obviously, more IO connections (CAN is fine too, though).

My goal is to monitor/log just about everything in/about the car on one (or more) digital dashboards.

Apologies if any of the above is redundant or already exists; while I'm pretty sure I've got a decent handle on what the MS3x can do, I haven't picked one up to play with yet (nothing to plug it in to until I get further along in my build).

Thanks!
So far that hasn't been a concern for me.
I've not run across any problem with processor speed when using MS3. Even dual VVT setups with CANBUS broadcasting.
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Re: "MS4" wishlist thread

Post by Peter Florance »

Peter Florance wrote:
Enki wrote:I know I'm a nobody here, but I thought I'd add my $0.02 anyways.

I'd really like to see a more powerful/faster processor which can handle more IO reliably, more memory/logic for multiple map switching (flex fuel, regular/sport/race modes, etc), and, obviously, more IO connections (CAN is fine too, though).

My goal is to monitor/log just about everything in/about the car on one (or more) digital dashboards.

Apologies if any of the above is redundant or already exists; while I'm pretty sure I've got a decent handle on what the MS3x can do, I haven't picked one up to play with yet (nothing to plug it in to until I get further along in my build).

Thanks!
So far that hasn't been a concern for me.
I've not run across any problem with processor speed when using MS3. Even dual VVT setups with CANBUS broadcasting.
I should also note that there is some history of feature and performance upgrades requested by non users.

Some existing users can get a little cranky about this, but many times people don't realize what is really great about this platform until they try it. And I get that.

You'll have more "street cred" regarding such upgrades once you try one.
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Re: "MS4" wishlist thread

Post by Enki »

As of right now, an MS3-Pro is on the list, but like I said, there's no point in getting one until I've at least got the engine in the shop getting machined, and closer to wiring up the car.
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Re: "MS4" wishlist thread

Post by muythaibxr »

Processor speed wom't be the problem for I/O handling anyway. Processor speed becomes a problem for model-based code though.
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Re: "MS4" wishlist thread

Post by knightrous »

Universal Injector/Ignition Driver
Surely there must be some kind of mosfet/igbt out there that will be capable of working as either an injector driver (hi & low-z) and as an ignition coil driver. This would allow say, 24 universal output circuits to be fitted onto the MS4 board to allow them to be assigned as an injector or a ignition coil (or any other output). 24 could be split up into 12 injectors, 12 coils, or 16 injectors (v8 staged injection) and 8 spark etc etc. Any unused ones could be for anything like VVT, Boost Control, Fan Control, Secondary Fuel Pump etc etc.
'89 Toyota MR2 AW11 - 1MZFE 3L V6 - Need to finish car before ecu :(
'89 Toyota MR2 AW11 - 16V 4AGZE - DIYPNP 1.5v
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Re: "MS4" wishlist thread

Post by racingmini_mtl »

knightrous wrote:Universal Injector/Ignition Driver
Surely there must be some kind of mosfet/igbt out there that will be capable of working as either an injector driver (hi & low-z) and as an ignition coil driver. This would allow say, 24 universal output circuits to be fitted onto the MS4 board to allow them to be assigned as an injector or a ignition coil (or any other output). 24 could be split up into 12 injectors, 12 coils, or 16 injectors (v8 staged injection) and 8 spark etc etc. Any unused ones could be for anything like VVT, Boost Control, Fan Control, Secondary Fuel Pump etc etc.
Injectors and coils have different electrical characteristics so you'll never have a universal driver for them. The best you could hope for is to have 24 generic logic level outputs with external or internal modules for injector or ignition coil drivers.

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Re: "MS4" wishlist thread

Post by JAM »

One feature that came in handy when doing an injector swap was having the option to choose between low/hi Z injectors (with a real peak and hold driver system) with a simple change in the software.
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Re: "MS4" wishlist thread

Post by Matt Cramer »

JAM wrote:One feature that came in handy when doing an injector swap was having the option to choose between low/hi Z injectors (with a real peak and hold driver system) with a simple change in the software.
We've found LM1949 based peak and hold drivers don't even need a change in the software to go from low to high impedance injectors - but they would be completely unsuitable as coil drivers.
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Re: "MS4" wishlist thread

Post by JAM »

Matt Cramer wrote:
JAM wrote:One feature that came in handy when doing an injector swap was having the option to choose between low/hi Z injectors (with a real peak and hold driver system) with a simple change in the software.
We've found LM1949 based peak and hold drivers don't even need a change in the software to go from low to high impedance injectors - but they would be completely unsuitable as coil drivers.
yeah, I have never personally seen an ECU that you can use injector outputs as coil drivers. in this case i refer to if its not used for injectors it cannot be used for anything.
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Re: "MS4" wishlist thread

Post by knightrous »

racingmini_mtl wrote:Injectors and coils have different electrical characteristics so you'll never have a universal driver for them. The best you could hope for is to have 24 generic logic level outputs with external or internal modules for injector or ignition coil drivers.
I had the feeling while writing the post, but since both injectors and ignition coils are both coils essentually, I thought there might be something out there that could do both. The idea of 24 generic logic outputs with a simple swap in module like your Sequential Module could be a very simple way to achieve this though. A simple PCB with a single injector or coil driver on it (maybe a couple of diagnostic LEDS, one for power, one for when the coil/injector fires) with a single socket (no flying wires like on the Sequential Module V1) and a retaining screw (could use a stand off like the MicroSquirt board does on the DIYPNP).

Then one could configure or repair their ecu just by purchasing and swapping out modules as needed without the need to even dig out a soldering iron :)
'89 Toyota MR2 AW11 - 1MZFE 3L V6 - Need to finish car before ecu :(
'89 Toyota MR2 AW11 - 16V 4AGZE - DIYPNP 1.5v
'90 Toyota MR2 SW20 - 1MZFE 3L V6 - MS3X
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