Who loves Microsquirt ?

[JoseMiguel]

Im completely not aware of the developing and hardware costs involved in a project like this, but it is hard for me to believe that expanding a MicroSquirt to have a few more outputs (with hardware that is well known) would triple the cost of the actual MicroSquirt.

Even if the final hardware doubles the cost of the MicroSquirt, it would still be $300 below the price of a MS3Pro. For some of us in the community, 300 makes a big difference.

[racingmini_mtl]

The question is whether the 4-cylinder version would be significantly cheaper than the MS3 Pro, and if the resulting product would be much smaller. For what it does, the MS3 pro compares favorably with the shrunk and restricted versions of the competition.

It would be very easy to make a much smaller board than the MS3Pro module. Since you need a second board anyway when using a module, you can optimize how the space is used between the 2 boards. As for price, that's debatable.

I'm not that advanced a user, but I use a lot of the MS3-only features, the ruggedized MS2 would not be an option.

I understand that but there is no way to make a competitive MS3 product. There are actually no options for creating an attractive generic product (for anyone who is not currently a licensee). The only option is if you have a very specialized product where cost won't be an issue.

Having said that, this is the business decision that has been taken and that's their choice. I may not agree with everything but I'll live with it.

Jean

p.s. I'm sorry to have taken the discussion off track. I just needed to clarify a few points that were raised.

[jsmcortina]

Im completely not aware of the developing and hardware costs involved in a project like this, but it is hard for me to believe that expanding a MicroSquirt to have a few more outputs (with hardware that is well known) would triple the cost of the actual MicroSquirt.

Even if the final hardware doubles the cost of the MicroSquirt, it would still be $300 below the price of a MS3Pro. For some of us in the community, 300 makes a big difference.

How about something like a "generic" MSPNP2 ?

James

[JoseMiguel]

Im completely not aware of the developing and hardware costs involved in a project like this, but it is hard for me to believe that expanding a MicroSquirt to have a few more outputs (with hardware that is well known) would triple the cost of the actual MicroSquirt.

Even if the final hardware doubles the cost of the MicroSquirt, it would still be $300 below the price of a MS3Pro. For some of us in the community, 300 makes a big difference.

How about something like a "generic" MSPNP2 ?

James

a "generic" MSPNP2 would be a great product, with 4 logic spark outputs...

[piledriver]

4 fuel outputs and 2 ignition should be sufficient for 99% of 4 banger installs.
(allows sequential fuel and waste spark)
That should only slightly bump the price and likely double (or more) the folks who would use it.

The motorcycle conversions (>~9K RPM) are the only folks who really benefit from sequential COP.(?)
There are some excellent waste spark coils that will still work well to 9K+.

[dontz125]

The motorcycle conversions (>~9K RPM) are the only folks who really benefit from sequential COP.(?)
There are some excellent waste spark coils that will still work well to 9K+.

My FZR250 has the redline on the tach at 18500; I believe a few racers have taken it to 19500 without spitting valve keepers or con-rods. Dual double-ended wasted spark coils, and you'd better have your battery WELL charged, because the stock charging system can't keep them fed. One of the items for my EFI project is a 4-channel DC-DC CDI box, as well as switching to LED everything ...

[piledriver]

Cool.
You might consider something like a large version of one of the old school bicycle generators that rubs on the tread when engaged...
Only half kidding. You could probably use something like that as a chain tensioner.


....of course LEDs rock, so carry on

[jrods2]

I'm currently writing some of the MS2 manuals covering the range of MS2 products. One question in my mind is why we appear to see far fewer questions about Microsquirt? Is it because the pre-assembled product is just higher quality and requires less support (quite possible) or because it sells less units?

It seems quite suprising that it would sell less units seeing as it is nicer and cheaper than an assembled MS2/V357 or MS2/V30. It is also cheaper than an assembled MS1/V357 - why would anyone buy the old technology instead?

Interested to hear why customers are buying what they are.

James

I was looking at using a ecu from a donor, but at the time I was doing machine work for Maxwell power sports who dyno tunes high HP motors, and he got me looking at alternatives & I happened to find you from a search. the more I read about your prod's the more I learned. I bought a diy kit and I'm still learning it but the one most important thing I've learned is it's getting simpler every day. The amount of information you put out there is unbelievable. I wanted to know everything about how it works. Granted that's a lot to learn & I'll never be an expert but I will know my build. I bought the ms2v3 and couldn't be happier.fi is really simple when theres people like you out there.
THANK YOU Jerrold W Dickerman

[piledriver]

I concur with Jrods2s sentiment, but as to the microsquirt, the non-upgradeable nature probably hurts some.
The lack of (easy DIY) repairability is likely also a factor.

If you start with an MS1 it can become an MS3 as finances allow...

I know I missed my MS3 every day while the daughterboard was out for repair, and I was driving the car, with an MS2 daughtercard in its place, full sequential and a good tune--- the more advanced MS3 idle features make a huge difference in livability, possibly more than any other type of feature.

I was considering a uSv3 for my next project, with the sequential fuel mod, but have reconsidered it after living with MS2 again for a month.
Might use one to run CIS though.

[ol boy]

I like the idea of a generic PNPMS2 box. I just want to get away from the Dsub connector. I'd still like to have access to all the internals for adding circuits and such. Need to start a thread with pictures of modded internals and show all the added stuff. My box has become quite a mess.

This brings me back to using a GPIO board for EFI. The GPIO board is a "Generic PNP" with Amp connector and everything.

[aw113sgte]

I bought the Microsquirt for a few reasons:
Motorcycle and needed as small a form factor as possible.
Needed a sealed unit

What I think is not great:
Sealing - Which I'm not impressed with, thin plastic case that flexes, have to seal with silicone or similar, no filler plugs supplied to seal unused connections, one pin comes without a wire and an open path inside).

Very limited I/O

Lack of odometer option, for most bikes where you have to use an odometer to guess fuel level this is very important.

Lack of coil driver. This means I have to get a coil driver (good luck finding a connector for the single coil Bosch units online). I ended up putting a BIP373 inside the case.

I also think it's incredibly lame that the connector comes out 90 degrees to basically every motorcycle ECU. Takes up way more room than needed.

I agree with the comment it seems like this was designed for bikes by people who didn't know about bike requirements.

[dontz125]

have to seal with silicone or similar

Agreed - it's a custom case; how hard would it have been to include a perimeter AS568-series o-ring?

no filler plugs supplied to seal unused connections, one pin comes without a wire and an open path inside.

Pardon? I just looked at my uS, and the board connector is fully sealed. Also, the schematic shows every pin spoken for - which pin are you seeing as empty?

Very limited I/O

True enough, but there are now fixes. My backlog of late orders (*sigh* - sorry, guys) is getting shorter and shorter, which means my 4+4 card is getting closer to prototype. Also, you can now use a second uS purely for I/O over CAN, using James' new IO Box code.

Lack of odometer option, for most bikes where you have to use an odometer to guess fuel level this is very important.

This one made me blink - what replacement ECUs out there have a speedo / odo function? The MS3 can do a speedo with the VSS sensors, but I don't think even it can do an odometer!

Lack of coil driver. This means I have to get a coil driver (good luck finding a connector for the single coil Bosch units online). I ended up putting a BIP373 inside the case.

Agreed. As I said on the first page of this thread, the vast majority of bikes use dumb coils, whether double-ended wasted spark or 2-pin COP. That said, there are lots of sources for "Junior timer connectors". (I have NO idea why they're called that ...)

I also think it's incredibly lame that the connector comes out 90 degrees to basically every motorcycle ECU. Takes up way more room than needed.

Agreed. No idea what they were thinking ... (It's too bad there isn't a 90-deg socket for these connectors!)

[aw113sgte]

no filler plugs supplied to seal unused connections, one pin comes without a wire and an open path inside.

Pardon? I just looked at my uS, and the board connector is fully sealed. Also, the schematic shows every pin spoken for - which pin are you seeing as empty?

Pin 18, shown on the wiring diagram as "N/C". Was empty on mine.

[jsmcortina]

Pin 18, shown on the wiring diagram as "N/C". Was empty on mine.

I'll escalate this question.

James

[dontz125]

When and where did you buy your harness? The useasydocs (B&G site)wiring pinout lists pin 18 as ... a second sensor ground (in addition to pin 20) for those who require it. Pin 18 may not be populated on your harness, but this pin can be added later if needed."

Also, the MicroSquirt V3.0 schematic shows the connector as fully populated (I can't access the V2.0 schematics; away from home, and the link here in the manual section seems broken), including pin 18.

[aw113sgte]

When and where did you buy your harness? The useasydocs (B&G site)wiring pinout lists pin 18 as ... a second sensor ground (in addition to pin 20) for those who require it. Pin 18 may not be populated on your harness, but this pin can be added later if needed."

Also, the MicroSquirt V3.0 schematic shows the connector as fully populated (I can't access the V2.0 schematics; away from home, and the link here in the manual section seems broken), including pin 18.

11/5/14 - Diyautotune
1 x MicroSquirt Engine Management System w/ 8' wiring harness (MicroSqrt8) = $369.00

[Raymond_B]

Now that trans support is out I love Microsquirt. And for folks not liking the Ampseal connector you can get the Microsquirt PCB only and make your own connectors.

[dontz125]

Now that trans support is out I love Microsquirt. And for folks not liking the Ampseal connector you can get the Microsquirt PCB only and make your own connectors.

The MicroSquirt Module is NOT a V3.0 MicroSquirt with the box and connector removed. The module is based on the previous V2.0 uS; it has a different VR amplifier circuit, and can present challenges to use with Hall sensors. On the plus side, it does bring out certain processor pins that were left off the cased uS, offering more I/O.

[Bombus]

As a newbie I can't confirm the system issues brought up here but regarding the Ampseal connector angle I'm also puzzled.
For my application I could chose position quite freely so I survived this time.

I'm doing a Carb to EFI conversion on my old Harley.
YES you read it right!

A step that's at all popular in the Harley community, direct frowned upon actually.
But I hope I can seek cheer and understanding here.
I'm hopefully days from first startup now.
Feel free to look at my blog about this circus I have had for a while and will probably have for a while more.
http://bombusspeedshop.blogspot.com

BR
Jonas

[Two_Wheeler]

Interested to hear why customers are buying what they are.

I was tired of carburetors gumming up and wanted to add a budget FI system, plus I wanted to modernize the bike since they don't make them like this anymore.

Like some other users here, I looked over the available products and the Microsquirt was the only one I saw as viable for motorcycle use. I've never done well at soldering small components, so the cased Microsquirt was what I needed. I like the support available here. The latest manuals are really good. It seems like before there was some conflicting information at times.

The largest initial issue I had was getting a trigger signal. I never could get it to trigger from the coils, but I was blessed to find a fellow GS owner that made a 24-2 wheel and custom mounting plate. I've since learned how to design parts such as wheels and plates in e machine shop software. I've designed a timing tab for my bike that will mount on the custom plate. I'm working through hardware issues but expect I will have the bike running and be able to start tuning it soon.

I have a lengthy thread on the GS Resources Forum that chronicles the failures and successes of my project. I'm writing it so as to make this project repeatable should another want to do so.

Someday funds permitting I plan to do the same thing to my newer GSX1100G motorcycle which from what I can tell will share a lot of the parts I used with the GS.