Hello newbe here, first post and already asking some help.

capri v8 driver · Post by **capri v8 driver** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:50 am

Hello everyone, I am new here and actually, also very new with the megasquirt v3.57 and ms3x board. Version 1.24.

I am building a 71 Ford Capri with a 427w and just got finished and testing with wiring for the controller, I've got signals on all sensors and I am getting the rpm signal from the edis module. The fuel pump runs when I start and I can see the signals in the diagnostic tab.

Now I made a file, witch I have included. It wants to start, as long as I keep turning it over but that's it. Its looks like its not getting enough fuel. As green as I am with this, I need some help with this.

Let me tell you what I have.
427w
39 lb injectors.
I used the ford sensors (ECT, ACT and the TPS). I use a ford ICV. Well everything is ford. I must say it did run on a A9P ecu before. It has sequential fuel injection, wired to the ms3x card.
cam sensor wired to the main connector pin 24 and pin 32 for the upper connector and the edis is wired to the upper connector, pin 14 (saw) and main connector pin 24 (pip)

Can some help me out and take a look at the file?

Thank you and greetings from the Netherlands,

Paul.

elutionsdesign · Post by **elutionsdesign** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 1:18 pm

A datalog of your next attempt would be very useful.

Start with fixed timing, timing is very important so you want to make certain its close right away. In fact it is useful to check timing while cranking without injecting fuel (pull the fuse) to see that its close enough to run.

Drop your cranking rpm to 300, 700 is too high.

And your project sounds cool, I used to drive a Capri.

capri v8 driver · Post by **capri v8 driver** » Fri Mar 28, 2014 5:00 am

Here is the datalog as requested.

I did dropt the cranking speed to 300 rpm and checked the static timing witch is at 10 degrees. Fuel pressure is 43 psi.

And your project sounds cool, I used to drive a Capri.

This my ongoing project since '93:

Ignore the injectors, Those where tlfperformanceparts injectors and are thrown in to bin.

slow_hemi6 · Post by **slow_hemi6** » Fri Mar 28, 2014 5:16 am

You will need to go into Tools in Tuner studio, unlock your calibrations and set your MAT and CLT to Ford sensors because at the moment you are reading in the -20's for both. That is making your cranking pulsewidth a massive 50mS on a car that has a req fuel calc of 15.1mS.

I also noticed you have dual narrow band set for EGO control. Tuning is not going to be easy without wideband info in your logs and feedback for VEAL. If you are going to tune it thoroughly on a dyno with their wideband then that's not too bad, but you will want to fine tune warmup and cruise and lots of other things (pretty much any time you change anything) that a wideband is essential for.
You will also be missing out on the excellent AFR Safety System.

capri v8 driver · Post by **capri v8 driver** » Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:28 am

Thank you elutionsdesign and Slow-Hemi.

I set the MAT and CLT to Ford sensors. It has some more live in it now. It now starts up when i open the throttle a little bid and idles for a few seconds and dies. I have included the files.

I did set the ego control on dual narrow band for now as it has 2 lambda sensor. Wide band sensors is on my to do list.

The capri will go on a dyno, but the operator wants a reasonable driving car to start with (time issues) . So its up to me to have the capri runing and driving before i bring him the capri.

Greets Paul.

slow_hemi6 · Post by **slow_hemi6** » Fri Mar 28, 2014 8:13 am

With no AFR information my best guess would be that it's still way too rich. For the moment I would reduce your req fuel by 0.5mS and try again. If no improvement then reduce another 0.5mS and try again. No improvement, repeat. When you get it to fire and perhaps even warm up (without the throttle juggling) then you should have an idea of what scale to reduce your VE table to when you return your required fuel to it's correct calculated value. That is if you had to reduce your required fuel by 25% then you would need to scale down your VE table by about 25% when the correct value of required fuel is restored.

elutionsdesign · Post by **elutionsdesign** » Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:09 am

Sync loss, in that short log you posted the engine lost sync 8 times, all reason 11, too few teeth before 2nd trigger. In the picture of the motor I see what appears to be a cam position sensor, does EDIS8 need this? I know EDIS4 and 6 don't. Maybe disconnect 2nd trigger (cam)?

kjones6039 · Post by **kjones6039** » Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:43 am

In the picture of the motor I see what appears to be a cam position sensor, does EDIS8 need this?

Nope...........

Post by **jsmcortina** » Fri Mar 28, 2014 11:24 am

kjones6039 wrote:
In the picture of the motor I see what appears to be a cam position sensor, does EDIS8 need this?
Nope...........

EDIS doesn't need it, but the MS3 can use it for sequential fuel.

James

capri v8 driver · Post by **capri v8 driver** » Fri Mar 28, 2014 1:01 pm

The engine has a cam position sensor because its wired for sequential fuel injection.

I used a recovered ecu connector to wire up the ms harness, This way I could use a ford ecu and it saved me time wiring it. The cam wires and edis wires (swaw and pip) are shielded wires

The cam sensor wired to the main connector pin 7 and pin 32 for the upper connector and the edis is wired to the upper connector, pin 14 (saw) and main connector pin 24 (pip) as described in the manuals. However, now I am confused, maybe I switched the wires of the cam. The manual also said, remove the jp7 jumper. I'm not so sure about R52 and R56 though. I am unable to feel the click described when turning them counterclockwise. I gave them 7 turns anti clock wise as the manual mentioned.

In the ignition settings / ignition options, I use spark hardware in use: ms3x spark and for the cam input: ms3x cam in.

Greets Paul.

elutionsdesign · Post by **elutionsdesign** » Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:14 pm

Post up a composite log from Diagnostics and High Speed Loggers tab.

slow_hemi6 · Post by **slow_hemi6** » Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:58 pm

Cam is meant to be between pin 32 upper and sensor ground. http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms3/hardware ... iring-ms3x

The pots are 7 turn pots and they can't be damaged by over winding (within reason). So 7 turns in either direction will have them at the the respective end of the pots range. Not all click. I have had well used multi turn pots that get a bit unreliable at the full extent and you have to back the screw off just a smidge after winding past the end of the adjustment.

capri v8 driver · Post by **capri v8 driver** » Sat Mar 29, 2014 4:11 am

I made a typo. The cam is connected to pin 7 of the main connector and pin 32 of the upper connector. Just like the diagram.

On advice of slow_hemi6, i lowered the ve table with 10%. Now it starts, but still rich and to high idle, so i lowered it a other 5%, but that was to much as the engine would not start.

I included the log file from this morning, and the msq files i now use.

slow_hemi6 · Post by **slow_hemi6** » Sat Mar 29, 2014 5:53 am

Keep in mind it will want to be rich from cold start and work its way to a good idle AFR when warmed up. Looks like leaning it that 10% got into the ball park. Now when it is warmed up you have to start tuning the individual table cells. I prefer to do this with the 2D maps and the blue ball showing the cell/s being used. Then when warm idle is all good you can adjust the warm up next cold start by using the warm up wizard or the VEAL warm up enrichment tuner.
Still there is no point getting further ahead if sync issues are still present. If you are still having those then you need to rectify that before delving into more tuning.
Got a normal datalog of it now for comparison?

capri v8 driver · Post by **capri v8 driver** » Sat Mar 29, 2014 8:22 am

i am getting lost. At least thats the feeling i have now. I know i need to have the sync issues sorted before i can do anything else.

i got her to idle and running on at all cylinders ( a little bit ) this morning. Now its only running with help of the throttle and way to rich.It hurts on my eyes. Lowering the ve table doesnt work. It doesnt start then

It seemed to get beter when i turned on the noise filtering on the ignition and the cam. However i cant make heads or tall of it when looking at the logs. But where is it loosing the sync? The crank sensor or the cam sensor?

Post by **jsmcortina** » Sat Mar 29, 2014 8:32 am

There are false triggers on the cam input.

My suggestion - simplify things. Get the engine running with semi-sequential fuel and the cam sensor unplugged.

THEN... once you know that the engine can start and run, you can tackle stage two of adding the cam sensor and sequential fuel.

Note, that that VE table has no effect on the first stage of starting. That is controlled only by cranking timing and cranking pulsewidth. From the one startup datalog you posted it looks like the engine is bursting into life and then dying due to the sync-loss. My suggestion above ought to resolve that.

I _think_ the reason for the sync-loss is that the cam tooth/sensor is positioned at an unfortunate angle so the pulse aligns with the EDIS PIP signal and is sometimes before and sometimes after that edge.

James

capri v8 driver · Post by **capri v8 driver** » Sat Mar 29, 2014 8:52 am

Thank you James.

I will try this monday. I dont want to distrube the sunday peace tomorrow.

Or should i do it tommorow

Greets Paul.

capri v8 driver · Post by **capri v8 driver** » Mon Mar 31, 2014 2:42 am

I did what james told me to do and switched to semi sequential fuel and unplugged the cam sensor.

After 2 try's it started up and run on all cylinders. It isn't running so rich any more. However it now dies after shortwhile. I tryed it a few times with the same result. The fuel pressure stays above 35 psi with a max of 42 psi. The fuel pump stays running for a few seconds after the engine dies.

I included the log file of this morning.

Greets paul.

slow_hemi6 · Post by **slow_hemi6** » Mon Mar 31, 2014 3:39 am

A std datalog would be good also.

capri v8 driver · Post by **capri v8 driver** » Mon Mar 31, 2014 5:24 am

More log files as requisted.

It runs. When cold i need to use some throttle to keep the engine alive and it doesnt respond very well on the throttle. it bogs down when i open the throttle. For the first time i was able to let the engine run for more than 5 minutes

. While the engine was heating up, i made a composite log, a thooth log and a sync log.

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Hello newbe here, first post and already asking some help.

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