new member mercedes m104 project to go stand alone

[drrossi]

hello there, i'm new here but i'm afraid i will be a frequent visitor in the near future:)

i'm Rob, live in the Netherlands and have swapped a mercedes m104 (3.2 liter, 6 cilinder) with auto transmission (4-speed) in my 1981 G-class.
Mechanically it is now hooked up and before beginning this project i already decided that i would go to Megasquirt if the stock electronics give ke a too hard time. Well, they did. bypassing the immobilizer on a reliable way seems almost impossible so i dont wanna put any effort in that route anymore.
Besides that, i'm interested incar technology and going to a stand alone setup would be a interesting way to go. i've done an intro course on the matter, together with a mechanical background i think it should be doable.

Important to state that i'm not looking for max power but mostly for a smooth drive, torque at low revs and reliability.

I think i can use most stock sensors and actuators but what is puzzling the most is if i can use the original triggering mechanism that (to my best knowledge) works with a VR sensor, although i cannot find out what ither parts are involved. Or that i should switch to a toothed trigger wheel which is not ideal in a offroad vehicle that sees dirt often.

Does anyone have experience with megasquirting this type of engine? Or has any knowledge on the triggering question?
Thanks in advance, any help would be great!
thanks, Rob

[drrossi]

PS what would be the best version of MS to purchase for this engine/application

need to be able to control VVT and variable intake length as well

[Matt Cramer]

Is the VVT on/off or continuously variable?

Any idea what the trigger pattern is on the crank? It's usually either one tooth for every two cylinders, or a 60-2.

[drrossi]

the triggering is my biggest question/concern
i think it has the three magnet kind of triggering with a VR sensor however i m not sure....hard to tell i think without opening up the bell housing
would the triggering with 3 teeth and VR sensor work with MS?
thanks?

[Matt Cramer]

Yes. This could use "Basic Trigger" mode with a distributor, or add a one tooth cam sensor for sequential injection or distributorless ignition.

[carmaniac37]

I have one of these motors running in my 190e Mercedes. To answer your question, the flywheel has three reference plates which pass by a VR sensor. There is also a single tooth cam with a VR sensor on the front of the head. If you have the older style, pre HFM, then you can use the factory distributor for spark and any of the megasquirt units will work to control fuel using those two inputs. MS2 would probably be easiest to get sequential working.

My engine is the factory fuel injected version (HFM) so spark has to be computer controlled. I'm using MS3X and controlling both spark and fuel with the Megasquirt. This unit runs the VVT and soon will run the resonating intake flap as well. I'd be curious to see how you proceed. If you have any other questions, I'm around.

[drrossi]

hi sorry for the late reaction

i have an HFM as well. A few questions of course;-)
Did you mount a trigger wheel or did were you able to use the stock system (with the VR sensors on cam and crank)?
Did you modify the throttle house/idle motor or were you able to use that as it was?
Do you miss the knock sensor functionality?

rgds, Rob

[duxthe1]

Wish I'd seen this earlier. I've megasquirted my M103 and I use a 60-2 flywheel with an OE crank sensor in the stock location. Your 104 is pretty much the same so I'd highly recommend you go that route. Many later 104 and 111 engines use the 60-2 pattern flywheel and will bolt right up. The only down side is that the engine and trans need to seperate to get the late flywheel installed and it sounds like you already have everything together. Don't let that stop you, these forums are full of people sorting triggering problems. I haven't had any issues with my triggering using the late M/B flywheel and an OE crank sensor. FWIW I'd recommend using a late sensor just because I'm not sure the early sensor can handle the 60-2 when it was originally designed to read a 3 tooth flywheel. The up side is that the early and late sensors interchange though you will want to double check the air gap. I had to space my crank sensor out about 3mm.

Feel free to shoot any other questions you may have, I'm an 18 year veteran M/B tech.

[MS2tester]

if you timing sprocket is anything similar to included files
would it be an idea to shrink fit a steel plate on the sprocket and machine a missing tooth wheel pattern in there?

manual information in the included 05-2160 pdf

[efims]

Hi,

Wonder if anyone has done it per MS2tester suggestion, using the camshaft wheel and sensor

[Hey_Allen]

I was looking into trigger wheel options when I was in the market to replace my m117 powered SEC, and found at last one shop that offers a tooth wheel that bolts on in place of the distributor on the front of the head.

If you go CoP or waste spark, you have that option open to you.

[ganbaa]

Nice me too planing convert my 103 to ms. But we need share knowkadge each other