CIS injection change to megasquirt

[mickeymarrows]

The fuel rail bolts directly to the head, no need to fab brackets..

[piledriver]

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but you are mistaken.

The G60 fuel rail bolts to the injector harness bracket, that bolts to something with vertical bolts.
The G60 valve cover has matching machined/drilled/tapped ~square recesses at exactly the right spacing/location, but I have yet to find a good picture of the setup installed, and I do not have the bracket/harness.
(it has an iac valve over the top blocing the view on assembled engine bay shots)

The following is a pic from a G60 swap thread, G60 rail/mount. Note the 90 degree brackets...


I have the G60 valve cover like the foreground version, the back one is IIRC G40.(Polo, never sold in US)
Note the rear cutouts/mount location for the fuel rail/harness bracket on both covers.


From all descriptions/drawings/procedures I have seen it all bolts to the valve cover.(vertical bolts)
I can personally verify the JH or G60 heads/manifolds have absolutely zero provisions for mounting a rail like later motors.

As I do not have the factory harness/brackets, I need to buy or fab the mounts, the factory wiring was usually incinerated ~crap quality anyway in spite of heat shields, I will simply use the proper teflon or other high temp insulated wire for that area, and probably fab the mounts from TIG'd up SS sheet.

But first I'm planning on swapping a handy CIS-E/M meter in and controlling it with MS2 for awhile.
http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 23&t=54976

I ran it on my 914 for a couple years sans computer and it ran great, with only manual tweaking and cold start valve switch...
35 MPG and ran like a beast for a 1700.

[mickeymarrows]

OK, I give up. Your google searching clearly has informed you better than my 20 years of experience working with G60s.

[piledriver]

OK, I give up. Your google searching clearly has informed you better than my 20 years of experience working with G60s.

In 30 years of working on capital equipment in several careers (USAF, then semiconductor manufacturing) I have breifly convinced myself from time to time of things that were incorrect as well. I have also occasioanlly had to call out PhDs for the same fault.

The G60 Corrado I raided for parts and the Bentley manuals gave me a pretty good idea of how it goes together.
...perhaps you should take a closer look. Getting old sucks.

The G60 was used in other models in Europe, and perhaps with later engine types. I'm in the USA, so it was only found on Corrados, whicch were an odd blend of MK1, 2 and Mk3 bit and pieces.

I only hit Google to make the point, here, with pictures of the actual hardware being discussed, not from memory, as I breifly considered that you might be correct.

Thank you for trying to be helpful.

[mickeymarrows]

Ha ha ha brilliant. Dig that hole deeper, you're only making it worse for yourself..

Maybe at some point in the near future you will realise that the fuel rail assembly you have posted a photo of bolts to the back of the head, and that despite your personal verification the 1.8 CIS head DOES have provision for it. It does NOT bolt to the rocker cover.

Talking of rocker covers, neither in your photo are G40. Both are potentially G60 or digifant II depending on year.

The two M8 tapped holes in the reccess on the back of the rocker cover are for mounting of the inlet manifold support brackets. These brackets mate with two M8 tapped holes on the front of the inlet manifold. These brackets also carry a fitting for a temp sensor on one side and on the other it sandwiches the bracket for the ISV.

I see you have edited your post to not appear so rude. Unfortuantly I had already written the reply above ^^

[piledriver]

Ha ha ha brilliant. Dig that hole deeper, you're only making it worse for yourself..

Maybe at some point in the near future you will realise that the fuel rail assembly you have posted a photo of bolts to the back of the head, and that despite your personal verification the 1.8 CIS head DOES have provision for it. It does NOT bolt to the rocker cover.

Talking of rocker covers, neither in your photo are G40. Both are potentially G60 or digifant II depending on year.

The two M8 tapped holes in the reccess on the back of the rocker cover are for mounting of the inlet manifold support brackets. These brackets mate with two M8 tapped holes on the front of the inlet manifold. These brackets also carry a fitting for a temp sensor on one side and on the other it sandwiches the bracket for the ISV.

"trust, but verify"... So far, I cannot verify your opinion.

I was going by the description of the fellow who originally posted the pictures. re: G40 vs G60 valve covers.
.
This is a rear shot of a g60 head--- there are 4 "free" (not manifold bolts/studs) upper bolt locations, they do not remotely match the mount tabs on the g60 rail.
The horizontal mounting points on the valve cover precisely match the injector spacing and the angle of the whole assy with the above pictured bracket looks correct.


The Corrado I raided had no manifold support brackets, (nor do the jh engines, other than the tie bar to the exhaust out bak)

I'm willing to be wrong and if so will admit it, but sumguy on the internet is saying something that makes absolutely zero sense based on all available evidence. I tried to take your word for it, but it doesn't seem to jibe with reality.

[mickeymarrows]

In the photo you have posted I can see the mounting points for the fuel rail assembly.

[piledriver]

I think I can too, if you flip the bracket so the mount surface is horizontal, I can see it lining up there as well.
(centered between 1/2, offset towards #4s injector hole)

Here's an aftermarket rail on what I assume are the stock brackets



The rail still bolts to a bracket, which bolts to the head, rail does not bolt direct to head.
(nothing lines up, have a dead head on the bench)

Like I said, if I'm wrong I will admit it, but I'll be damned if I could find a useful picture of an installed setup.
Seems like anyone with a G60 who has taken a photo has pulled the manifold support brackets off, but I think i can visualize where they go on the G60 manifold>cover.

Since I'll likely have to fab a mount bracket anyway, I may yet use the valve cover spots for a rail mount, as the JH manifold has no support bracket mounts..

[mickeymarrows]

Good luck.

[piledriver]

Thanks.

Just for clarity:

The fuel rail bolts directly to the head, no need to fab brackets..

My Google search for references and doubts were all in response to this ^^^ which is incorrect.
The fuel rail does not mount to the head directly on a G60.(or JH) it does not line up at all. (I tried it, then argued)
It mounts to a bracket. I still need brackets./

[mickeymarrows]

It depends on what you think of as the fuel rail. You're thinking of the absolute bare plastic rail, no injectors, no fuel pressure regulator, no fuel pressure regulator support, no injector loom etc etc..

Whereas everyone else thinks of a G60 fuel rail assembly to be exactly what you yourself have posted a photograph of, which bolts directly to the back of the head.

However, please feel free to spend the next 30 minutes or so using google and VW Vortex to find eveidence of other people who only refer to the bare rail when converting from CIS to Digifant. God forbid you'd have to admit to being wrong.

All I did was try and help you and all you've done is told me I'm wrong and been rude (although you've edited your posts to make yourself look reasonable)

Like I said, no hard feelings and good luck with your project.

[piledriver]

I edited my response immediately after hitting "submit", as I thought my response looked a bit gruff: It was a long day after work getting home at 2AM.
I didn't realize it was a "live" conversation, you posted back as I edited.

When anyone buys a "fuel rail" from a dealer, on ebay etc, typically all you get is the plastic fuel rail, and that's all I have (and a new regulator and presure switch)

I was simply trying to sort how they fit up... It requires the brackets to bolt on.

Thank you for your help.

[piledriver]

So back to on topic information.

Apparently the CIS heads lack those lovely mounting bosses for the Digifant fuel rail, so the above argument was a complete waste of time/energy.

Neither of the heads I have (the original 86 vintage mechanical or hydraulic replacement) have those bosses.
...nor would there be any reason for those mounting bosses to exist pre-Digifant.

So... A custom fuel rail mount AND the EFI injector screw in sockets are required to convert a CIS car to EFI, regardless, unless you have a Digi head.


If you have the bosses (G60 or Digifant era head) and then you need the two rail mounting brackets as well as the fuel rail.