Is my tune safe?

[the_buster]

Hi all

it's been a while since i have been here anyway this is where my ford 5.0 tune is at the moment can you please have a look and maybe offer some advice and/or tips as this is the best i can get it without some guidance. i am running an MS3 with expansion here are my files.

thanks.

302Windsorv8.msq

[kb1982]

Have a few queations for you. What fuel are you using? What are you using to determine your air to fuel ratio? Wideband narrowband o2 sensors? Did you calibrate the o2 sensor(s) in tunerstudio? Also you need to calibrate your coolant temp sensor.Your tps sensor needs to be calibrated also. With the throttle closed, it should read near or at zero, and around 100 at wide open throttle . In the datalog, it appears to be reading -7.7 idling. Once you calibrate it, slowly press on the gas pedal to wide open throttle with the engine OFF, and watch in tunerstudio to make sure it increases linearally without any spikes. Same for when you let off the gas slowly, no abnormal spikes that would inicate a bad tps sensor. Next brings me to the AFR that is being shown in the datalog if it is in fact correct. Afr in the 7, 8 and 9 range is way too rich. So rich that the fuel will wash the oil of the cylinder walls and the piston rings will start to wear away the cylinder cross hatching in the bore. Anything that rich, that engine needs to be shutoff, changes made to the VE table, then start the motor back up. Your target at idle should be around 14.7, but this wont alway be achievable. My 95 mustang is running batch fire with a MSPnp, and it idles smoothly at 900 rpms with an afr of 13.4 Any leaner and it starts to surge. If you are runnning 19lb injectors, the 86-93 base map tune at this link should give you and idea of a good starting ve table. http://www.megasquirtpnp.com/mspnp2_maps.php If you are using 24 lbs injectors, use the 94-95 base map ve table as a reference.
First things to do are calibrate your sensors. Then set your ignition options. I set fixed timing at 10 degrees, that way when i fire the motor up i can set the trigger angle offset. I personally leave mine at zero and move the distrib until i have 10 on the harmonic balancer, but we havent made it there yet. Set required fuel setting and everything else. Start up the car, observe afr. TOO rich, lower the ve number in that bin that the car is at until it leans out. Too lean, make the number bigger. I just get it in the ball park where it will idle at a decent rpm, and an afr from 12.5-15 . If it stays running, check the timing. It should read 10 on the harmonic balancer. Remember, it was set to fixed at 10. If it isnt move the distrib or add crank trigger angle. Now you have timing set correctly. Switch back from fixed timing to using your table. I dont even try to tune a cold engine. I let it warm up, where warm up enrichment no longer plays a factor in anything and leave it in open loop mode. Once warmed up tune away until you get a good idle. Keep track of your engine coolant temps and make sure the fans kick on to keep it from overheating. Once you have it idling smoothly warmed up, you will know what to aim for when you start tuning it for cold start ups. Hope this helps somewhat.

[Matt Cramer]

One thing that jumped out at me is that the trigger angle is set to 21 degrees. The code needs a trigger angle with TFI set to 0 to 15 degrees to get a correct spark advance range. You may need to adjust the distributor to get an allowed trigger angle.

[the_buster]

Hi

thanks for taking the time to reply. To answer a few questions i run premium 98 RON fuel and i am still unfortunately running narrow bands. Here is my revised tune and a data log

driveway2.msl

302WindsorV8_2.msq

once again thanks for your help.

[kb1982]

Looks as if you are making good progress and corrected alot of the issues that were pointed out. Seems to be idling pretty steady, but it seems at a kinda high rpm. If you dont have a rowdy cam in it, you should be able to bring the idle down closer to the 800-900 rpm range when it is warmed up. So after you hit the 160 degree coolant point, go into tuner studio>idle/startup>pwm idle duty cycle menu and adjust the idle pwm at 160 degrees. When you lower the number, your rpms should drop down. If it doesnt drop, you may want to check the screw on the throttle body. I set mine fully closed using the screw, then give it a turn so that the butterfly doesnt hang in the bore. As you reduce the pwm of the iac, you are letting in less air and you will need to adjust your ve for the cell that it now idles in. If you want it to idle at 800 rpm it is beneficial to have a cell say at 600 rpms also. I added the cell in both the fuel ve and timing table. You can set the timing higher in that cell than your target rpm cell. If the idle drops to low and the engine tries to die, when it hits the 600 rpm cell with the higher timing than the 800 rpm cell, it will send the engine in to an up and down surge insteading of stalling out and dying, Once you have your target idle achieve, adjust the ve table until you have it idling near stioch 14.7 or around .45 or .50 ego in your case. You may not be able to acheive that a stioch ratio without the motor going into a lean surge up and down. When that happens, increase your ve number in that cell until the surge goes away and now you have a clean smooth idle. Im not an expert by any means at tuning, so others may have some better advice as Im going of what has worked for me on my car.I have a 95 mustang with bored and stroked 302 that has been modded fairly heavily, but the Ford 302 setups are fairly the same. I wlould make a suggestion of trying to get a widebind installed in your car. I personally run an innovate mtx-l unit myself, that can be had for around 150 dollars USD. As for the placement of the single wideband, the driver side is the best location for it, as most fords have the fuel entering in the passenger side fuel rail and uses a crossover to feed the driverside rail. The driver side will run a tad leaner under heavy loads due to this design. Hope this helps you out some, and have fun learning and tuning your car.

[the_buster]

hi all

having another look at my tune and have it going relatively well. To clarify my install and my timing, I have used a 36 pin molex connector in the stock harness and have used the same molex connector on the MS harness. My earth's are running directly to my block and my wideband is wired in with ecu power and an earth wire from the stock harness, outputs go to MS EGO (pink wire on DIY harness). My timing is as follows: I had made my own piston stop marked position at full stop clock wise and full stop anti clock wise I then measured the distance between both marks and marked TDC #1 in the middle. Trigger angle/offset is set to 0 and timing for fixed advance was set to 20 after lining up TDC #1 by moving the distributor. The car started with a cough and fart until it got warm-ish. The base map/msq i used was EEC4A8_Mustang302_321.msq from the DIY website. I made the necessary adjustments to suit my setup (which is completely stock) and am now trimming fuel. I have been working with MS3X for over a year now but I can't get idle right and the car seems to run differently every time I turn the key. any help would be fantastic as i have spent heaps of time and $$ on setting this up. Car now pulls hard in 4th with a map reading of 86-89 and an AFR of 12.2-12.6 @ 5250-ish RPM's @ 186 Kph. I really need to get this going properly cold starts are the absolute worst eg idle bounces between engine stall and 1400-1600 rpm if i play with the idle valve duty and change minimum and maximum values it stabilises but when i do another cold start it does the same thing. There was a noise coming from the valve but I cleaned the connector and the noise seemed to vanish. When it cold start's it starts hard drops to the right rpm's for a couple of seconds and then looses the plot completely. What am i doing wrong? Please help, i really don't know what i can do to fix it.

Engine is Ford 5.0 HO motor using TFI has stock everything except headers and a single 3inch exhaust no cats

Thanks,

My Current 302.msq

Data-logs.zip

[the_buster]

well i sorted out idle but now the car runs really ruff and feels like it's not firing on all 8. I have (today) replaced all plugs with correct gaps, distributor cap and rotor (NOS), all leads. verified timing, trigger angle is set to 0 fixed timing is set to 0 and the timing is spot on at idle using trigger wizard. The car still produces power at 1200 RPM's and 4th gear 50% throttle and climbs well without complaint. Just as things got better they are getting way worse, I am starting to regret MS. but it runs rough like a wiped lobe or exhaust valve or something. However the is ZERO engine noise no tappet no knocking no bad voodoo sounds at all. Please help as i am about to spit the dummy and smash it with a hammer! or worse send it to a mechanic!

EDIT: FIXED! the problem was a faulty injector. tested output on all injectors with a noid light all was fine except i noticed the car ran the same on number 8. Replaced it and all is good.

thanks

2015-05-22_11.50.11.msl

[the_buster]

HI!

Think i am almost done. Can someone PLEASE have a look and offer some suggestions? In particular regarding trimming fuel for the higher load points.

Cheers,

Getting-better-302-Windsor.msq

[BigLou240sx]

It looks more than rich enough at higher load (especially with incorporate AFR turned on). I would think you'll be pulling fuel out after you drive, but I wouldn't be stressed to test it out the way it is. Ease into the throttle, try to hit some hills and slowly hit the high load points without having to romp the throttle and stay in it.

For the sake of safety, I would maybe reduce ignition advance at high load. Is 33 degrees your normal engine spec? And as always, is your commanded timing synced with your delivered timing (checked with a timing gun on the crank pulley)? Does ignition advance remain consistent across engine speed?

[the_buster]

Thanks for the reply

Base timing is 30 deg BTDC as stated in the factory manual for my car which has a 302 HO Windsor in it. Timing is spot on with a timing light, doesn't drift around and doesn't retard with increased RPM when fixed. 12.6 AFR at full load is correct for my car with the E7's because apparently the iron heads like it richer, i don't know how true this is though. 13.6 AFR is best at idle again this is based on my reading. It's strange though how I have include AFR and my gauge has different values even though it should be exactly the same, ironically my car is at 13.6 on the gauge when idling and gets closer to 12.2-12.4 at load. TunerStudio gauges read the same as my dash and AFR gauge but my AFR table is so different to real values. Why is this? The engine really has never ran better it's allot smoother, isn't guzzling fuel, is HEAPS more responsive and has tones more power. Noticed today though my oil pressure is higher than usual but I have no reference point other that my stock gauge.

Thanks.

here's a pic of my car for fun sake

[BigLou240sx]

Cool car! Thanks for the pic.

What do you mean by your AFR table is different from your real/measured values? If you want your car to run at 12.6 AFR (and your AFR target table is set to your actual desired AFR, which it is currently 100% load is 12.6), then the VE table needs to be adjusted to deliver the right amount of fuel. If you were richer (12.2-12.4), then you need to remove some fuel from the VE table at those load points and RPM (not too much, approximately 2 or 3% reduction).

Having values in your afr target table (without turning EGO control on) and selecting incorporate AFR, does not mean that MS will try to correct the fueling to match; it just adds another factor in the base fueling equation.

[the_buster]

Thank you!

That clears up a few things for me.

Cheers,