Need Help with V12 project

[ruski]

Hi. This is my first time trying anything like this. I have a Mercedes V12 engine that I would like to run on megasquirt. Im think of using MS3 but I know close to nothing about this stuff. My back ground is Mechanical Engineering. Can anyone direct me in the right direction before I start spending money. Here are some specs on the engine:

M120 V12 48 Valve
DOHC
Fires every 60degrees
Variable Intake Cam
Currently has distributor but will be using Coil-on-Plug

Ive seen someone use EDIS system, is there an easier way?

[Matt Cramer]

With MS3, there's no need for an EDIS ignition; it will run the ignition directly. The best point to start will be reviewing the documentation.

If you are going with a solder it yourself kit, start with the standard MS3 manuals:

http://www.msextra.com/ms3manuals/

If you want a ready to run unit, your best bet would be the MS3-Pro. Its documentation is here:

https://www.diyautotune.com/downloads/m ... manual.pdf

[elutionsdesign]

I have a client with a Toyota V12, we're using MS3Pro very successfully running fully sequential injection, waste spark ignition, VVTi on the intake cams and an electronically controlled dual path intake. I highly recommend the same for your project.

[ruski]

I have a client with a Toyota V12, we're using MS3Pro very successfully running fully sequential injection, waste spark ignition, VVTi on the intake cams and an electronically controlled dual path intake. I highly recommend the same for your project.

So this project has been sitting on the back burner, until now. So I placed a few orders for this project and got the car that this engine is going into. Here is everything I got so far:

-MS3Pro with wiring harness
-GM Open Element IAT Sensor
-GM Closed Element CLT / IAT Sensor
-Hall effect crankshaft position sensor
-GM 3 Bar MAP Sensor
-8 1/4" 36-1 Trigger Wheel
-2x Q45 90mm cable throttle bodies

Need to order-
-O2 sensors- Still havent decided wideband or not and what brand- suggestions?

The engine is currently has two distributors. Should I buy seperate coils or COPs? Am I missing anything else?

[duxthe1]

Why not use the Mercedes crank sensor and 60-2 flywheel? Better resolution and is a plug and play solution.

[ruski]

Why not use the Mercedes crank sensor and 60-2 flywheel? Better resolution and is a plug and play solution.

Im installing a manual transmission to it so the stock flex plate is being replaced with an adapter for a new flywheel. But I will see if I can make that work.

[BoonZ]

The sensor ring is part of the ring gear bolted to the flex plate. I reused it on the new flywheel.

[ruski]

I'm about to buy some COPs. I want to use the mercedes COPs but I'm not sure if I will be able to use them with the MS3Pro. Can any one let me know if I will be able to use them? Here are the part numbers and info I was able to find:

MB# 000 158 72 03
Bosch # 0 221 504 001
http://www.bosch-motorsport.com/media/c ... 147pdf.pdf

Or should I just buy LS2 coils. Thank you for any help

[billr]

"The coil P50 has no integrated transistor and requires an ECU with inter-
nal ignition power stages, e.g. IGBT IRG4BC40S or BIP"

That is from the data you linked to, so you will need some kind of coil driver external to the MS. DIYautotune sells the BIP373 "kit" for under $10 each, you would need 12 for COP. You can run it fine with just six coils and drivers using wasted-spark, but will have to have plug wires from twin-tower coils to the plugs. There are some wasted-COP coils that attach directly to one plug and have only the one wire to the other plug, but I think it is unlikely these would easily fit any applications other than the OEM intended.

[kjones6039]

Still havent decided wideband or not............

By all means! You are definitely going to want a wideband!!

Ken

[ruski]

"The coil P50 has no integrated transistor and requires an ECU with inter-
nal ignition power stages, e.g. IGBT IRG4BC40S or BIP"

That is from the data you linked to, so you will need some kind of coil driver external to the MS. DIYautotune sells the BIP373 "kit" for under $10 each, you would need 12 for COP. You can run it fine with just six coils and drivers using wasted-spark, but will have to have plug wires from twin-tower coils to the plugs. There are some wasted-COP coils that attach directly to one plug and have only the one wire to the other plug, but I think it is unlikely these would easily fit any applications other than the OEM intended.

Thank you for all that info. Would I be able to run two COP coils off one coil driver and do a wasted spark setup? That way I keep the engine looking stock and not have to worry about mounting the coils somewhere else.

[billr]

I can't give you a firm "no", but I wouldn't trust it. The coils you linked to have a nominal primary current of 8.5A, and the BIP373 seems to have a max current of 16A. By keeping dwell low (see the charts in the coil data) you could keep current withing BIP limits, but I would either use different coils or pay for the extra coil drivers. If you run into misfire problems, why have to wonder if it is simply because of a weak spark? And you may not even notice a misfire, the engine may simply be down on power a bit; you won't be getting its full potential. In this over-all project, isn't $60 for six more BIPs rather trivial?

[prof315]

If it were me, I'd probably go with an MS3-Pro, 2 Quad spark boxes , 2 of DIYAutotune's 6 tower coil packs and some suitable plug wires, stock wires with GM/HEI terminals would work perfectly I'm sure.

I did a similar set up with a 3/3X instead of a Pro on a 92 Jag XKE V12. I used a 36-1 wheel and Ford VR sensor for a trigger and stayed batch fire injection. Since you have native 60-2 plus cam signals and are looking at a 3-Pro, go sequential injection by all means.

[ruski]

If it were me, I'd probably go with an MS3-Pro, 2 Quad spark boxes , 2 of DIYAutotune's 6 tower coil packs and some suitable plug wires, stock wires with GM/HEI terminals would work perfectly I'm sure.

I did a similar set up with a 3/3X instead of a Pro on a 92 Jag XKE V12. I used a 36-1 wheel and Ford VR sensor for a trigger and stayed batch fire injection. Since you have native 60-2 plus cam signals and are looking at a 3-Pro, go sequential injection by all means.

I think thats the way I will be headed. This might be a stupid question, is there a down side to putting the coil packs inside the car? I would like to keep my engine bay as empty as possible.

[prof315]

If it were me, I'd probably go with an MS3-Pro, 2 Quad spark boxes , 2 of DIYAutotune's 6 tower coil packs and some suitable plug wires, stock wires with GM/HEI terminals would work perfectly I'm sure.

I did a similar set up with a 3/3X instead of a Pro on a 92 Jag XKE V12. I used a 36-1 wheel and Ford VR sensor for a trigger and stayed batch fire injection. Since you have native 60-2 plus cam signals and are looking at a 3-Pro, go sequential injection by all means.

I think thats the way I will be headed. This might be a stupid question, is there a down side to putting the coil packs inside the car? I would like to keep my engine bay as empty as possible.

Just serviceability.... We removed removed the distributor and made a block off plate then mounted the coils in the intake valley on my install. Came out pretty nice.