Timing Light reading 70 degrees

pbreaction · Post by **pbreaction** » Fri Jun 19, 2015 7:58 am

Ok i dont have my tune on me right now i will upload it when i get home.

Attended the dyno day in Houston and my car made 315 hp when it should be 550 hp now obviously my tuning is way off. Now everyones first suggestion was to check my timing.

I ve got an LS3 with fast intake aftermarket heads and 2.75" long tube headers

Now using a piston stop i marked TDC hooked up my timing light and dialed my light until the lines on the balencer aligned with the mark on my water pump. The light read 70 degrees this is at fixed 10 degree timing on tuner studio. now when i changed to 15 degrees the light read 75 degrees. Now i am just wondering if the dial back lights has a 60 degree offset because as far as i know the engine is running alright... i don't think its even possible for an engine to have 70 degree timing.

this is the light i have

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000EV ... ge_o02_s00

has anyone have any insight on what is going or any suggestions would be great.

-Mark

pbreaction · Post by **pbreaction** » Fri Jun 19, 2015 9:30 am

here is the .msq

elutionsdesign · Post by **elutionsdesign** » Sat Jun 20, 2015 9:15 am

I hate fancy dial back timing lights, one more thing to get wrong. Throw it away and borrow a plain old cheap single button one.

Ollie8974 · Post by **Ollie8974** » Sun Jun 21, 2015 1:43 pm

elutionsdesign wrote:I hate fancy dial back timing lights, one more thing to get wrong. Throw it away and borrow a plain old cheap single button one.

Same here, do not use a dial back timing light on MS.

pbreaction · Post by **pbreaction** » Sun Jun 21, 2015 7:10 pm

hmmm ok well i guess i will return it ... do yall recommend a decent light?

pbreaction · Post by **pbreaction** » Mon Jun 29, 2015 7:37 am

used another timing light still reading 70 degrees... i am going to check TDC again.

pbreaction · Post by **pbreaction** » Mon Jun 29, 2015 7:20 pm

OK checked and rechecked with a pencil this time for TDC going to pull off the balencer next and mark the individual degrees ... its just hard to believe both timing lights both reading 70 d when it should be 10

old guy · Post by **old guy** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 5:41 pm

What kind of trigger wheel are you using and at TDC how many teeth is it from the missing teeth to the vr sensor?

kjones6039 · Post by **kjones6039** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 6:01 pm

pbreaction wrote:used another timing light still reading 70 degrees... i am going to check TDC again.

Just curious here................. How do you know the timing is 70* btdc unless you are still using a dialback light? Early in this thread, elutionsdesign recommended against using one. I fully agree.........

I submit, without equivocation, that that the engine is not very likely to run at 70* advance!!!

Just my 2 cents, of course.

Ken

pbreaction · Post by **pbreaction** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 6:32 pm

Here are some pics

pbreaction · Post by **pbreaction** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 6:33 pm

Timing light when i actually see the markings

kjones6039 · Post by **kjones6039** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 7:16 pm

The pics certainly confirms the dial-back timing light......

Ken

billr · Post by **billr** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 8:33 pm

"used another timing light still reading 70 degrees... i am going to check TDC again."

Bummer. I assumed that meant the OP had moved to a non-dial-back light. Now, it looks like a different (Snap-On?) dial-back was used instead of the Innova. My best advice is to get somebody else to start checking things. I find that it is human nature to "see" things as we know they are supposed to be, not the way they really are.

prof315 · Post by **prof315** » Wed Jul 01, 2015 3:40 am

Something else to check.... LS engines do not have a keyed harmonic balancer or crankshaft. Are you sure your timing marks are correct? The balancer may have slipped on the crankshaft.

pbreaction · Post by **pbreaction** » Wed Jul 01, 2015 10:41 am

ya i will ask around and see if anyone has a regular ol timing light

and the balancer was marked right after i checked TDC

kjones6039 · Post by **kjones6039** » Wed Jul 01, 2015 10:47 am

pbreaction wrote:ya i will ask around and see if anyone has a regular ol timing light

and the balancer was marked right after i checked TDC

Which leads me to another question...... Exactly what method are you using to determine TDC?

Ken

old guy · Post by **old guy** » Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:15 pm

Are you really using a 60-2 trigger wheel as shown in your msq?
Also you didn't answer the question about how many teeth is the missing tooth from the vr densor at tdc.

pbreaction · Post by **pbreaction** » Wed Jul 01, 2015 2:32 pm

yes i am using a 60-2 wheel and i don't know about the tooths away from the sensor... is there a way i can take the sensor off a look ... or would that be a huge pain in the ass. i didn't build my engine and when i asked him to mark TDC the heads were already on and he said the ecu does it automatically... needless to say i wasn't too happy with the build but that history now...

To find TCD first method i used was a piston stop both rotations and TDC is in the middle.

Second method i used was take out the spark plug put a pencil in and as i turn the balancer feel when the piston changes directions.

kjones6039 · Post by **kjones6039** » Wed Jul 01, 2015 3:43 pm

pbreaction wrote:To find TCD first method i used was a piston stop both rotations and TDC is in the middle

That's what I was hoping to hear. That is the most accurate method, IMO!

Second method i used was take out the spark plug put a pencil in and as i turn the balancer feel when the piston changes directions.

Not nearly as accurate as your first method and I would never rely on it!!!

yes i am using a 60-2 wheel and i don't know about the tooths away from the sensor

You must know this information before this is going to work!!! Knowing this value is absolutely essential!!!!! Does the engine run as it is now??

the heads were already on and he said the ecu does it automatically

The only response I can come up with is... BS!! Sorry to be so blunt, but he is not correct! Of course all of the foregoing is just one old guys opinion!

Ken

Post by **jsmcortina** » Wed Jul 01, 2015 3:46 pm

The ECU will only "adjust automatically" once you have given it the correct tooth#1 angle. That's absolutely essential.

James

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Timing Light reading 70 degrees

Timing Light reading 70 degrees

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