Hyosung vtwin questions

[ertert]

Hi everyone, I’ve been reading about MS for a while and have always wanted to try it out and learn about tuning. I would love to get it working on my v-twin motorbike because the aftermarket ecu options for it are pretty bad. (I’m currently run a piggy pack style ecu off the injectors o.O help me!)

The bike in question is a fuel injected 2010 Hyosung GT650 and I’m looking at getting the MS3 because it has the nice SDcard logging feature and also does stepper motor idle valve control out of the box. (Bike has a 4 wire stepper) Reading the forums and documentation has answered a lot of questions for me but I’m at the stage that I need the knowledge of experts!

Before I hit you guys with the questions here is some critical info about the bike:

• Displacement 647cc /Bore 81.5mm/Stroke 62mm
• 2 cylinder 4 stroke oddfire 90deg vtwin.
• Firing order is cylinder 1 -> 270degs of crank rotation -> cylinder 2
• 24-2 crank wheel. no cam wheel
• 2 coils, 2 injectors, 2 MAP’s (Stock ECU runs full sequential spark and fuel)

Pic of the important stuff. Note the 2 MAP’s and where they are plumbed:



And now onto the questions:

Q1) Can I run this in full sequential spark and fuel by using one of the MAP sensors as a CAM signal to detect engine phase? MAP 1 output is 2 volts pk-pk over a full engine cycle with a nice pointy dip when the valves are closed. Here is a scope trace of MAP 1 output vs crank VR sensor:



Q2) The stock bike comes with 2 MAP’s. Each MAP is plumbed very close to the intake ports of each cylinder. Can MS3 use MAP1 signal to calculate cylinder 1 fuel and MAP2 signal to calculate cylinder 2 fuel? If this is not possible, what’s the best way to do this?

Q3) TDC lines up with a tooth edge on the stock crank wheel. Is this okay? The documentation shows examples where TDC always aligns the VR sensor with the centre of a tooth.

Q4) On the stock wheel, a tooth + gap is 15deg but the tooth is smaller than the gap. Is this okay? Here is a pic of the wheel:



Q5) Being a vtwin the bike does vibrate a bit. Will a MS3 ecu be okay in this environment? There will be enough space to mount MS3 where the stock ecu was but it is definitely not as nice an environment as inside a car. It will stay warm and dry but will condensation within the case be an issue?

P.S. Thanks for taking the time to read this! I linked this post to a topic in the korider forums since I know there are a few more guys over there interested in this.

https://korider.com/index.php?topic=270 ... #msg243132

[Matt Cramer]

And now onto the questions:

Q1) Can I run this in full sequential spark and fuel by using one of the MAP sensors as a CAM signal to detect engine phase? MAP 1 output is 2 volts pk-pk over a full engine cycle with a nice pointy dip when the valves are closed.

Yes. MS3 supports MAP phase detection.

Q2) The stock bike comes with 2 MAP’s. Each MAP is plumbed very close to the intake ports of each cylinder. Can MS3 use MAP1 signal to calculate cylinder 1 fuel and MAP2 signal to calculate cylinder 2 fuel? If this is not possible, what’s the best way to do this?

MS3 has a second MAP sensor option, but I am not sure if anyone's tried to use this option and MAP phase detection. A known good bet would be to plumb one MAP sensor to both intake runners. The phase detection code is capable of handling this.

Q3) TDC lines up with a tooth edge on the stock crank wheel. Is this okay? The documentation shows examples where TDC always aligns the VR sensor with the centre of a tooth.

Sure. Just set the tooth #1 angle accordingly.

Q4) On the stock wheel, a tooth + gap is 15deg but the tooth is smaller than the gap. Is this okay?

That is no problem. It only looks at one edge.

Q5) Being a vtwin the bike does vibrate a bit. Will a MS3 ecu be okay in this environment? There will be enough space to mount MS3 where the stock ecu was but it is definitely not as nice an environment as inside a car. It will stay warm and dry but will condensation within the case be an issue?

Consider using an MS3-Pro, the severe duty variant of the MS3. But I've seen regular MS3s used on V-twin bikes too.

[piledriver]

IIRC a Microsquirt V3 will do sequential on a twin.

About 1/3 the cost of an MS3pro, and will probably work peachy, also smaller and can be fully sealed like the MS3pro.
Does lack the SDcard logging, but you can log to the phone in your pocket via Bluetooth a whole lot cheaper.

[dnz]

I may be wrong but I think you will need a cam signal for sequential with the microsquirt.
So in that case you wont need 2 MAPs so I think plumbing both intakes to one sensor would work well on that.

[racingmini_mtl]

MAP can be used for phase detection for sequential injection with the Microsquirt also.

Jean

[piledriver]

I may be wrong but I think you will need a cam signal for sequential with the microsquirt.
So in that case you wont need 2 MAPs so I think plumbing both intakes to one sensor would work well on that.

One ONLY needs a cam signal to support fully sequential, as long as it is a missing tooth wheel with enough teeth.
Crank signal not required. (may be other cam wheel patterns that can do same)
Some very popular engines have very sloppy distributor drive setups though, so crank trigger is still useful to many.

but its good to know the MAP signal can also provide sync.

(OT)If the uS has the additional injector driver module installed, MAP can still provide sync on a /4? Cool.

[ertert]

Thanks for the response guys! The crank wheel and MAP situation was 2 of my biggest concerns but it looks like they will work. I also got a scope trace of the 2 MAP sensors working at the same time. Yellow is MAP 1 and Green is MAP 2. Basically if I plumb one MAP sensor to both ports the signal will look like the red line I added in:



Note the dip in the red line is no longer consistent! But If I set the MAP settings to the following:

MAP sample timing & MAP Sample Window (deg) = enough to cover the dip for each ignition event
MAP Sample Method = Use timed min
No. Sample Events = 2

It should use the lowest MAP value from the last 2 windows (lowest point in event 2) to calculate fuel so the inconsistent dip doesn't matter. Is this correct?

@ piledriver I didn't know Microsquirt can log via bluetooth! Would these logs also be compatible with the auto tune feature in tuner studio? (I don't want to ride around everywhere with a laptop strapped to my back running auto tune!)

[racingmini_mtl]

(OT)If the uS has the additional injector driver module installed, MAP can still provide sync on a /4? Cool.

No, this is only for 1 or 2 cylinder engines.

Jean

[grom_e30]

iv got a microsquirt v3 on my bike and i found that bluetooth was a much more stable for com's had all sorts of problems with coms dropping out when using a cable, i can use either my small laptop to log or tune live with veal, or use my android phone with either shadow dash or ms droid for data logging. i used a short jack to rs232 cable then a rs232-blue tooth adaptor the microsquirt does not have a way of powering the adaptor so i used a cigarette lighter adaptor to usb to power my blue tooth adaptor.

[ertert]

iv got a microsquirt v3 on my bike and i found that bluetooth was a much more stable for com's had all sorts of problems with coms dropping out when using a cable, i can use either my small laptop to log or tune live with veal, or use my android phone with either shadow dash or ms droid for data logging. i used a short jack to rs232 cable then a rs232-blue tooth adaptor the microsquirt does not have a way of powering the adaptor so i used a cigarette lighter adaptor to usb to power my blue tooth adaptor.

Are the shadow dash and ms droid data logs compatible with the 'VE analyse' feature in Tuner Studio?

[DeadStiff]

Tunerstudio is for live tuning. Megalog veiwer can use logs to adjust your tune, but it isn't as good as Tunerstudio because it has a fixed ego delay. Tunerstudio has a table for ego delay.

[ertert]

Thanks DeadStiff.

Is anyone able to confirm if my understanding of 'MAP sample events' is correct:

...If I set the MAP settings to the following:

MAP sample timing & MAP Sample Window (deg) = enough to cover the dip for each ignition event
MAP Sample Method = Use timed min
No. Sample Events = 2

It should use the lowest MAP value from the last 2 windows (lowest point in event 2) to calculate fuel so the inconsistent dip doesn't matter. Is this correct?

[ertert]

Thanks to everyone who responded to my questions. The last few weeks I have been testing out a few things to see how the stock dash, sensors, ecu and relays work. Finally came up with a plan and ordered a microsquirt and accessories from diyautotune. Hope I can get it to work because it's going to be awesome having the first 'squirted hyo!

The plan is to do a fuel only install for now to see if phase detection will work with the stock MAP sensors. From my last post is anyone able to help answer this question for me?

Is anyone able to confirm if my understanding of 'MAP sample events' is correct:

...If I set the MAP settings to the following:

MAP sample timing & MAP Sample Window (deg) = enough to cover the dip for each ignition event
MAP Sample Method = Use timed min
No. Sample Events = 2

It should use the lowest MAP value from the last 2 windows (lowest point in event 2) to calculate fuel so the inconsistent dip doesn't matter. Is this correct?