Spitfire 1300cc

[GlassCake]

So Ive read a few walk troughs and it seems like every single one of them is different.

Here is what i would like to get: (and what I think will work right will be the micro squirt.)
(The engine is an inline 4 with carb and distributor)
Four individual fuel injectors (to be done first)
Four coil on plug with no waste spark
The ability to upgrade to a turbo system later
Misc upgrades so i think the micro squirt will work but please confirm the 3 major upgrades are doable

Yes i know how to weld: tig, mig, stick and i know how to machine ( have access to many Bridgeports and a few cncs). Working on cars is not new to me but adding an efi / ecu to a carbed car is something ive never done.

Now i also am confused on what parts I am going to need to scrounge up.

I know im going to have to make a custom intake for this but thats not an issue
Then im going to need a throttle body with TPS
A Mas air flow meter
Fuel injectors
O2 sensor in the exhaust (why not also in the intake?)
Fuel rail and pressure regulator
fuel pump and new lines to and from the gas tank
36-1 tooth gear (i saw someone use the distributor instead?)
Anything els?

Now more technical things. what pressure am i going to need in the fuel rail? what size or type injectors would be good for this project (this is trying to be cost effective not looking for amazing gains just something to learn and do)
How much can i grab from a pull a part? and what cars should i be trying to pull from.

[gtmdriver]

If you have a throttle body with a throttle position sensor you don't need a mass airflow sensor.

It is a good idea to have a vacuum take off in the inlet manifold to allow the MAP sensor to do its job.

The oxygen sensor in the exhaust allows the ecu to calculate the air/fuel ratio and for VE analyse live to make adjustments.

Commonly fuel pressure is 3 bar (45psi).

You will need a high pressure pump, filter and possibly a swirl pot to act as a header tank for the pump to prevent it ever running dry.

There are a number of online calculators to work out the required injector flow rates for any engine.

Where you source parts is up to you. The MS units are very flexible and can be programmed to use almost any sensors.

I fitted an MS2 v3 to my aircooled VW Beetle engine using Ford Fiesta injectors, a BMW motorcycle throttle body and sensor, a VW engine temp sensor, a GM IACV and inlet air temp sensor and an after market lambda sensor and controller.

[GlassCake]

What about the 36-1 toothed gear? It should work if it's just welded onto a pully correct? As for the swirl pot what does that do other then get air bubbles out of the gas line? Thanks for the reply.

I also have a bug at home, 71 super having trouble retuning the carb ironically

[gtmdriver]

As I said above the swirl pot acts as a fuel header tank for the high pressure pump. Unless your fuel tank is well baffled or has a purpose designed sump section for the pick up pipe there is the possibility that, when the fuel level is low, hard cornering may cause the fuel to flow away from the pickup pipe and air will get sucked into the system. The high pressure pump will be damaged very quickly if it sucks in air so to avoid this a low pressure pump, such as the one you are using now for the carburetors, is used to fill the swirl pot and fuel is then taken from this to the high pressure pump. To ensure that the swirl pot is always full excess fuel from the fuel rail bleeds back into it and then a return line is taken from the top of the swirl pot back to the tank.

The 36 - 1 toothed wheel should be fine as long as you can find a suitable mounting point for the sensor. The toothed ring needs to be mounted very accurately on the pulley so that it is exactly concentric with the crankshaft. The sensor air gap could be in the order of 0.030" and any run-out will compromise the signal from the sensor. Getting a good signal from a VR sensor to the MS unit is essential and can be one of the trickiest part of the installation.

[GlassCake]

awesome thanks for the help, do you have any experience with the gmc TBI on their older 90s cars? just dug around more and found out those might be a good starting point for getting the thing running before i throw in a bunch of time and effort on something i may struggle with.


They seem to have the fuel injectors, pressure regulators, and TPS all built in witch while learning may be nice.
Anyone have any info on using a mega squirt with them?

I was already able to find this thread
https://www.diyautotune.com/support/tec ... efi/part1/
witch is very good but maybe someone els will have something to add to it.

Also with those being designed for a big 5L V8 would it have some tuning issues with the Injection and air flow? I know that the computer will just change how long the fuel is injected but would the microsquirt be able to make such a big injector spray for such a short time?

i know some of these questions may not be able to be answered and are kinda left up to me to try to make it work but i appreciate everyone's help.

[LAV1000]

I would not use this one.
Try to find something with the same or a litle bigger cross section as the current carburator.
Check out the small cars (+/- 1000cc) or use a single tbi from a motorcycle.
And mostly easier to fit your current manifold.

[GlassCake]

I would not use this one.
Check out the small cars (+/- 1000cc) or use a single tbi from a motorcycle.
And mostly easier to fit your current manifold.

forgot they made motor cycles that big.... some people just crave power
the mega squirt system is sopost to be able to be calibrated to mostly any TBS?

[DaveEFI]

Have you Googled to see if someone has done the same conversion? Or checked with the Triumph clubs - perhaps UK ones? And even MG ones - as the later Spridget shared the same engine.

If you are using MS fuel only and batch injection, deriving the tach signal from the dizzy will be fine. However a crank trigger is much more accurate. Given the amount of work needed to fit injection to this engine, I'd go for that as it future proofs any changes you may want to make later. And mapped ignition can have performance benefits too - especially since your engine will no longer be standard.

[GlassCake]

Yeah I have looked at two big EFI and ecu builds for the spitfire but both guides use the bigger 1500 cc engine and I believe I have the general idea on what needs to.
Be done. Adventully I want to do the whole custom intake and everything but seeing that I'm still learning I'm going to just go with something simple for now. Just kinda trying to get an idea of what I haven't thought of or might be missing.

[LAV1000]

I would not use this one.
Check out the small cars (+/- 1000cc) or use a single tbi from a motorcycle.
And mostly easier to fit your current manifold.

forgot they made motor cycles that big.... some people just crave power
the mega squirt system is sopost to be able to be calibrated to mostly any TBS?

Yes but you need to get some basics right.
To big cross sections won't work, airflow gets to low.
To big injectors and its a pain to get to idle.

Grab a coffee or beer and checkout the topics on this, they are in this chapter a litle bit up

[DaveEFI]

Yeah I have looked at two big EFI and ecu builds for the spitfire but both guides use the bigger 1500 cc engine and I believe I have the general idea on what needs to.
Be done. Adventully I want to do the whole custom intake and everything but seeing that I'm still learning I'm going to just go with something simple for now. Just kinda trying to get an idea of what I haven't thought of or might be missing.

I don't know Triumph engines well, but assumed the 1500 was merely an enlarged version of the 1300? So basics would be the same?

I'm not much of a lover of individual throttle bodies on what will be a relatively low revving engine. A plenum system with port injection can make more sense. And is far easier to tune.

[R100RT]

"Grab a coffee or beer and checkout the topics on this, they are in this chapter a litle bit up "

+1 on LAV1000's advice - Unless you don't mind going through significant R&D testing & hard part revisions, your best plan is to review other results and study those manuals until the cows are coming home so to speak.

[gtmdriver]

This is the single throttle body on my VW beetle conversion.





It is one of a pair from a BMW R1200 motorcycle and has an integral TPS and an IACV.

Although I only have one throttle body I have individual port injectors.

As a rough guide you need to choose a throttle body from an engine producing the same sort of power as your own engine not necessarily one of the same cubic capacity.

[GlassCake]

I don't know Triumph engines well, but assumed the 1500 was merely an enlarged version of the 1300? So basics would be the same?

I'm not much of a lover of individual throttle bodies on what will be a relatively low revving engine. A plenum system with port injection can make more sense. And is far easier to tune.

Yeah i believe they are just bored out bigger, but they might have different cam shafts not 100% sure

[GlassCake]

This is the single throttle body on my VW beetle conversion.

It is one of a pair from a BMW R1200 motorcycle and has an integral TPS and an IACV.

Although I only have one throttle body I have individual port injectors.

As a rough guide you need to choose a throttle body from an engine producing the same sort of power as your own engine not necessarily one of the same cubic capacity.

Ahhhh allright that makes sense thanks a lot everyone. Ill keep the build updated and continue to ask questions.

[slow_hemi6]

We had 1.6ltr GM family 2 engines (1987 to 1991) that came with a rotchester TBI. I had a nissan N13 pulsar that was equipped with that engine. It went well and was very reliable. Would probably be a good size TBI for the triumph.

[gtmdriver]

The 1500 Triumph engine was a long stroke version of the 1300 cc unit.

The engine started out as a 998 then was bored first to 1147 then to 1293. That was as far as it could go by increasing the bore size so they increased the piston stroke to get to 1493cc.

They fitted the same engine to the MG Midget too as the A series engine had already been bored and stroked as far as it could go so when they needed increased capacity to compensate for the power lost to emission control adaptations the only suitable engine was the Triumph unit.

It produced slightly less power in the MG Midget as the exhaust manifold had to be modified due to lack of space.

[GlassCake]

We had 1.6ltr GM family 2 engines (1987 to 1991) that came with a rotchester TBI. I had a nissan N13 pulsar that was equipped with that engine. It went well and was very reliable. Would probably be a good size TBI for the triumph.

What cars came most common with that being? Or what vin number should I look for

[slow_hemi6]

In what country do you live? I am from Australia but the GM family2 engine was available in cars in a lot of markets.

[GlassCake]

In what country do you live? I am from Australia but the GM family2 engine was available in cars in a lot of markets.

Us of a the land of envision resteictions