Help my students; MS3, 35CC, 150 MPG on Alcohol

[knewshound]

I'm the Mentor/Advisor/Volunteer for a group of high school students competing in the Shell Eco Marathon. http://www.shell.us/energy-and-innovati ... ricas.html I am a lifelong car guy and retired network engineer and am very comfortable working with EFI and CPU based systems.


We are building, from scratch, a sub 200 lb car running a 4 stroke 35 cc weedwacker engine using an MS3 while running on 100% alcohol. It will have an aerodynamic body with a very lightweight driver.


We built and entered a car 2 years ago that used a scooter motor on alcohol with a much heavier car and got 125 mpg and we hope to exceed that. Hopefully substantially. We used an Ecotron system on the last car and are not eager to use it again.

We have purchased an MS3 and are in the process of installing the sensors and associated wiring. The wideband O2 sensor is my current issue and I could use some advise to a better and cheap alternative to the Ecotron one I have now.

Additionally, we were hoping to find a MS3 guru that would not mind us contacting directly for advise. Ideally they would be on the west coast as we meet Tuesday and Thursday evenings in the Sacramento area. We would appreciate someone we can call, text and email during critical times for advise and troubleshooting assistance.


It has been very rewarding work with these very bright and motivated kids and any help we could get would be much appreciated. If you are a business it is even tax deductible and we will put your sticker on it!

[billr]

Many of us have been pleased with the price/performance of WB sensors from <14point7.com>; the Spartan series in particular. I'm not really that much of an expert, but am in ZIP 94596; your time-zone at least. Ethanol or methanol? Do they let you start those econ-runs with the engine already hot? I have experimented with "wet" 190-proof (moonshine) and find that I have to heat the injector to get a start with a cold engine.

[knewshound]

Looks like I will be purchasing one ASAP. The Ecotron piece was non standard and the tech support was a challenge. Thank you for the link.

Let me get it in hand and wired in. It is the only thing stopping us from firing the engine. I will keep you posted.

I will try to post pics from Tuesdays class. The car is pretty cool.

[knewshound]

Is this the one we need?

http://www.14point7.com/products/sparta ... ntroller-2

[billr]

That is the controller only, no (plug in) sensor included. It is $50 more if get it and the sensor.

Edit: 35cc is pretty small, I have no clue as to whether an "automotive size" sensor is going to work OK. Jean, Alan, any opinions?

[ol boy]

I've used one on a Subaru 33cc engine before. Works fine. Also on a Honda 35cc

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[knewshound]

We have two, 4 wire O2 sensors that were purchased before I came onto the project. Are they usable?

They have 2 heater conductors and 2 signal.

[ol boy]

Yes and no. For a wide band you need the 5 or 6 wire type. Once the tune is sorted with the wide band you can switch to the narrow band and fine tune for 14.7. Should still work the same with methanol or ethanol.

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[knewshound]

Ordered.

Thank you for all the help.

More questions coming soon!

[5.0Thunder]

Sounds like a cool project! I wish we had stuff like this in high school.

[knewshound]

The new O2 sensor is installed, all the other sensors are wired and we are ready for first run.

However, we are desperate for a 1 cylinder gasoline fuel map for a 35cc engine.

Anyone have a base map that would work to get it running?

[billr]

Post what you have so far for the MSQ. To "just get it running" I often use a variable-resistor (two terminal of a pot) in place of the CLT sensor. Set a very "wide range" WUE table and you can quickly lean/richen the mixture, using the pot, to keep the engine firing. Log that and use the shown to start tweaking the VE table. Have you tried using the VE table generator?