Suggested Reading for New User

[69StangRestomod]

Hi all,

I'm in the planning the stages of a 408W stroker for a 69 mustang build. I don't have a running engine in front of me, all I have are hopes, dreams, and desire...I'm a former technician and current engineer, so I know my way around a car and how to go down the rabbit hole on research. I don't have a hard power number in mind, but I estimate that I can put down north of 650hp with a blower on pump gas (ok, so maybe that a power number)...

Plans that involve a Megasquirt will be a one-off EFI system with CoP ignition. To put a roots blower on a 351W I'm going to have to get creative with a mill and intake, which also require deleting the distributor, hence the CoP ignition. The plan is to use an MS3 on a a 5.8L, lower EFI intake, modifying as necessary for a blower,and launching from there. I should be able to use most non-performance items (pigtails, fuel rails, etc) from a 5.8L EFI system.

I am in the middle of this book right now:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/19324 ... UTF8&psc=1

It has helped me understand speed density EFI system insomuch that I understand what the ECM is controlling and what a parameters it needs to make it function, there another book on amazon I plan to read to get my general EFI knowledge and terminology up as well. I should be able to calculate the size of pertinent items from these books.

What I am looking for currently is any other suggested reading - books, tech articles, posts, etc - that help me with the process. It seems most people here run Mopar or Chevy,the SBF crowd is sparse. I'm constantly looking for things that cross over and homing in on topics about going from carb to EFI. I've cruised the tech articles on DIYautotune, but most seem to revolve around modifying and integrating into an EFI system, not so much gong from 0 to 100 on one.

So I'm more or less opening the floor to reading material, nuggets of wisdom, and anything else you think I should know as I embark on this journey. I hope to have an intake mocked together within the year (other things are being accomplished simultaneously on the car as well), and then I'll begin building the engine from the bottom up, and start piecing together the necessary items then.

Thanks in advance!

[benckj]

Being an Engineer and MS newbie myself I can understand your quest for knowledge. Although I am more into forced induction 4 bangers the theory of modern engine management is still the same. I can flick you PowerPoint presentation on the subject but to be fair you really just need to dive into the control software. Using Tunerstudio is fairly straightforward and a clear understanding of its control can only be experienced. If you have ever worked on PLC systems this will be a walk in the park. I'd recommend to download a software and start playing with the parameters until you feel comfortable with the acronym and logic.

Jim

[CRSTune]

I'm a Mechanical Engineer. I wouldn't say that the SBF crowd is sparse. It seems to be pretty common here. Heck, I'm currently helping a local user tune his turbo 302.

Read some of the articles in the link below. It'll help understand a little more in depth about the finer points of fuel injectors.
http://injectordynamics.com/the-library/

I would also recommend going through the MS3Pro manual. It gives you an understanding of all the functions, settings, etc that are available to you. Once you know what's available to you, you'll probably have more questions about the finer points and that may point you in a direction for more answers.

[billr]

Get the book by Matt and Jerry at DIYautotune. Yeah, much material will be redundant, but Matt is a prominent mentor on this forum, so using his book will have you "playing from the same book". Plus, you will be supporting DIY for all the fine value they offer the MS community.

Don't you need to keep the dizzy for driving an oil pump? Regardless, a simple missing-tooth crank wheel (36-1 or 60-2) will let you run wasted-spark. I don't think there is any advantage to COP at V-8 speeds (<10K rpm). Yeah, COP can look "neater" when the coils can be buried into the valve-cover, but that doesn't work all that well with wedge heads.

I'm a BBC guy, but agree there is much activity here regarding Ford, especially the SBF.

[CRSTune]

Maybe if he was NA, COP wouldn't be a great improvement but the fact that he'll be running forced induction changes that in my opinion. The advantage of running multiple coils with both improved spark duration and (hopefully, depends on the coils chosen) higher voltage means he'll be able to run larger spark plug gaps, gaining more consistent ignition under boost (I'm thinking of LQ9 truck coils specifically). It always bugs me when owners have to compensate by running small spark plug gaps (less than 0.025") just to not have spark blowout. Plus, the removal of the cap/rotor removes one more point of resistance. Granted, I understand it completely depends on the level of boost, VE, and the coils in question what spark plug gap ultimately gets run.

+1 on the missing tooth crank wheel. 36-1 is fantastic while 60-2 is even better! Pair it with a Hall sensor if you can. Throw in the Explorer cam sync and you get your cam signal for full sequential while having something to drive the oil pump.

[billr]

Did I do my math correctly, doesn't wasted-spark give you 6 msec to use for spark/dwell at 10K rpm? Isn't that plenty, even for boosted engines? Aren't some of those popular CNP coils self-limited to 4.5 msec dwell anyway? Besides, will the OP be running 10K rpm?

I understand (and agree) that CNP will work great, but does the cost of more coils get you anything other than no snaking of plug wires across the engine? I say CNP because I seriously doubt any COP will survive in the heat near the plug that a wedge head usually insists on.

[CRSTune]

Sorry, I should've been more clear:

-I was referring to COP/CNP vs Distributed. I don't expect much of a difference between sequential and semi-sequential ignition in his application, I agree.

-I tend to use the term COP interchangeably with CNP (I really shouldn't). My LQ9 reference is usually a CNP setup anyway. Yes, I know they're psychically different but I don't find the use of spark plug wires to be a huge disadvantage in most applications.

-The cam sync was geared towards sequential injection, which is nice. Plus, he still needs to have something there to drive the oil pump. Why not make it useful?

[jsdevel]

I just finished the wiring in the engine bay of my 91 Volvo 240. I physically started at the end of October. Prior to that I spent a year reading the manual, forums, and data sheets for various sensors etc. I've found those three to be invaluable. I will say though that with the manual you have to be careful. The cross references between sections are not always accurate (it is quite the undertaking to write a manual that large in scope). That's why the forums are always the best for clarification IMO.

[69StangRestomod]

Thank you all for the replies, I genuinely appreciate it. I'm not frequent on internet forums (just moved, new job, blah blah blah), but the info you've passed on is great to get me going.

To answer a few Q's that were brought up:

- the plan is to eliminate the Dizzy because I'm fairly certain I can't put a blower on and use one given the location on a SBF. That's the real reason for COP. I was going to use the AEM cam sensor for the cam signal as it will spin the oil pump.

- This will be a stroker street engine, so realistically the Torque curve will probably be peaked before or at 5,600-5,800 RPM. For a car on the street, can't see a reason to build it tougher than that.


Once again, thanks for the replies, you'll be hearing form me again I'm sure.

[whittlebeast]

See if this helps a little.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/tuning/BasicTuning101.pdf

Andy

[DaveEFI]

Get the book by Matt and Jerry at DIYautotune. Yeah, much material will be redundant, but Matt is a prominent mentor on this forum, so using his book will have you "playing from the same book". Plus, you will be supporting DIY for all the fine value they offer the MS community.

Don't you need to keep the dizzy for driving an oil pump? Regardless, a simple missing-tooth crank wheel (36-1 or 60-2) will let you run wasted-spark. I don't think there is any advantage to COP at V-8 speeds (<10K rpm). Yeah, COP can look "neater" when the coils can be buried into the valve-cover, but that doesn't work all that well with wedge heads.

I'm a BBC guy, but agree there is much activity here regarding Ford, especially the SBF.

On an engine where the dizzy drives the oil pump - like my early RV8 - a common mod is to cut one down (a stumpy) if going wasted spark. Or to modify it to provide the cam signal for sequential.

[Raymond_B]

Thank you all for the replies, I genuinely appreciate it. I'm not frequent on internet forums (just moved, new job, blah blah blah), but the info you've passed on is great to get me going.

To answer a few Q's that were brought up:

- the plan is to eliminate the Dizzy because I'm fairly certain I can't put a blower on and use one given the location on a SBF. That's the real reason for COP. I was going to use the AEM cam sensor for the cam signal as it will spin the oil pump.

- This will be a stroker street engine, so realistically the Torque curve will probably be peaked before or at 5,600-5,800 RPM. For a car on the street, can't see a reason to build it tougher than that.


Once again, thanks for the replies, you'll be hearing form me again I'm sure.

If blower clearance is your only motivator there's plenty of people running low profile distributor caps folks have been doing that for years. Also if you look you'll find that the AEM piece is no longer available for the 351w. You might be able to find someone who still has one in stock or maybe a used one. They pop up on the Corral every so often. Another option is to get both a V-6 4.0 and V-8 302 Explorer cam sensor and swap out the shaft and gear, depending on what cam you're using. If you don't want to do it yourself go on Facebook and look for 64 bit tuning, there's a guy selling complete units.

Here's a link to a thread on this board that talked about SBF cam sensors. http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 71&t=61546

I am using one on my 427w with IGN-1A coils from DIY Autotune



Small thread on crank sensor too http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 23&t=63808