Edelbrock E Street

[anotheridiot]

I am trying to figure out if megasquirt might be the proper way to go with the original edelbrock E street system. We got what we thought was a great deal on the system thru pep boys, price went down to 1400. What I did not realize is they were just about to introduce the e street 2 and we were buying an obsolete system that edelbrock is not really supporting any more. We kept hearing that they would send you tunes but all we are learning is they depend on self learning so much that starting points matter for a little while, then they take you where it wants you to go. We dont have any ignition options with this, we are running the MSD 6AL with the pro billet distributor.

So we basically have a TBI system, 4 injectors, fuel pressure sensor, mass air flow in the throttle body, temperature sensor, probably all the parts you guys deal with, Our idea is always trying to keep learning and find a standard platform for our next build, like trying to make a tri power for the 36 chevy coupe.

[billr]

I'm not sure what the specific question is; but sure, MS is the wise choice for any engine management needs! I would ditch the MSD ignition, though, and let MS handle that too. You will keep the dizzy for just driving the oil pump and as a "cam sensor" if you want to run full-sequential fuel or COP ignition.

[anotheridiot]

Specific question is replacing the e street control box with something we can program to leave alone. I am not a fan of ditching parts right now

[whittlebeast]

Most likely your sensors would be OK but it will take some resurrect on your part. Things like what is the MAP sensor output curve?

[Raymond_B]

Specific question is replacing the e street control box with something we can program to leave alone. I am not a fan of ditching parts right now

It won't be plug and play by any means, like mentioned you'll have to figure out all the sensors (1st assumption would be they are all GM). Then you'll have to get info on the injectors, impedance, flow rate, etc. Then you'll have to graft all the wiring together.

I'd sell it and cut my losses (if any).

[gjestico]

Mass air flow in the throttle body ? What does that look like ?

[anotheridiot]

cant paste pictures, its on page 8.

http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/mc/ ... lation.pdf

[CRSTune]

That's a MAP sensor, not a MAF sensor.

[anotheridiot]

That's a MAP sensor, not a MAF sensor.

So I guess it would look like what I would need to put in line from an air box. Maybe not having the MAF variable is part of the missing information to get better performance.

I am just trying to figure this out, so I am assuming that mostly these are replacing computers in stock applications or is it more for the high end custom type of work? I am just trying to take a piece that we paid money for that seems to be turning obsolete and trying to talk to it.

[Matt Cramer]

MAP sensors need to be downstream of the throttle and would not work in the airbox.

[billr]

There is no need for a MAF sensor, so if you don't have one with that E Street, don't worry about it. There is little (none?) performance increase to be had with using MAF, especially if you don't spend many happy hours on a dyno. In fact, without the dyno time, you may easily end up with less performance fussing with MAF.

It looks like that E Street has most or all of the hardware you need, just replace the ECU with an MS.

[slow_hemi6]

IMO the E street Throttle body is at best, a blatant copy of the original FAST ezy efi throttle body. I run the ezy efi throttle body with a MS2 using all it's sensors except MAP. MS2 has on board MAP to 250kpa so why bother with the TBI's 1 bar map. MS does not have an onboard WBO2 controller, you need one to go between sensor and MS. There is no doubt some other stuff like the E streets wiring for relays is straight from the battery but MS requires the relays to be mastered by the fuel pump relay.

[billr]

Just curious...

What makes you think Edelbrock copied F.A.S.T.? That TB doesn't look at all unique, and Edelbrock has been doing EFI for far longer. If anything, I would suspect the F.A.S.T. TB is "copied" from an early Holley or Edelbrock unit.

[slow_hemi6]

The holley projection was one of the first but completely different. EFI hardware TBI was pre ez efi but was a tbi only no ecu or self tune. I know when the ez efi came out, I am a car guy, I read car mags, I have like a decades worth of Summit catalogues. Ez Efi was before the E/street, before Atomic, before FiTech and before Terminator.
E Street was launched at SEMA 2012 and Ez EFI 2.0 was launched at the same show. I remember reading ez efi install articles mid 2010.

[billr]

I was taken for a short ride in a car with Edelbrock full-sequential MFI in 1976. I don't know the progression of their EFI product development or offerings over the years, but I don't think they needed to copy anybody to come up with a TBI system.

[slow_hemi6]

They were a player in the early days of MFPI for sure. But they like many overlooked the self tune carb replacement market. When FAST started to get good sales an make money they jumped into that market, ditto for the others. Oh edelbrock will copy a proven product formula to make money, The Performer carb is and always has been a direct copy of the carter 4bbl.

[anotheridiot]

They were a player in the early days of MFPI for sure. But they like many overlooked the self tune carb replacement market. When FAST started to get good sales an make money they jumped into that market, ditto for the others. Oh edelbrock will copy a proven product formula to make money, The Performer carb is and always has been a direct copy of the carter 4bbl.

There is a connector port on the wiring harness that appears lie something that can be going to their computer. The bluetooth constantly drops off, so I asked if we can get a cable to hard line to that computer port. Their answer was, we dont use that port. We dont have a connector for that to communicate with our software, the manufacturer uses that port to load the software into the control module. Does not sound like they have developed much at all. So that was why we started thinking it might be a generic piece, we just need better communication. If that MAP sensor is at that spot, then Matt Cramers comment seems like they are off with that to begin with. Now there might be a port that goes under that throttle blades to get the reading, but if it does not, how do they expect anyone to trust this. Its just me and the idiots that want to bolt it on and think it will run better, not go from 8mpg with a carb to 3.

[billr]

If you are using MS now, then you don't care about that connector that used to be for linking their ECM to a programming/display system. You will simply be connecting MS directly to whatever you are using to run Tuner Studio; often a common USB cable is used.

You can just ignore that connector, but I think there is going to be another that you will also have to adapt to; the one between the ECM and all the sensors/relays/injectors. You will probably have to cut off the existing connector there and re-wire the harness to a connector suitable for the MS. It may be easier and cleaner to just start with a new harness.

Edit: I peeked again of that harness that is supplied with the E Street. It looks pretty decent, so I would be tempted to use it, just adapting the connector for to the ECM

If you are asking why the existing E Street ECM won't communicate with its tablet (via BT)... sorry, supporting that system isn't our purpose here.

[anotheridiot]

If you are using MS now, then you don't care about that connector that used to be for linking their ECM to a programming/display system. You will simply be connecting MS directly to whatever you are using to run Tuner Studio; often a common USB cable is used.

You can just ignore that connector, but I think there is going to be another that you will also have to adapt to; the one between the ECM and all the sensors/relays/injectors. You will probably have to cut off the existing connector there and re-wire the harness to a connector suitable for the MS. It may be easier and cleaner to just start with a new harness.

Edit: I peeked again of that harness that is supplied with the E Street. It looks pretty decent, so I would be tempted to use it, just adapting the connector for to the ECM

If you are asking why the existing E Street ECM won't communicate with its tablet (via BT)... sorry, supporting that system isn't our purpose here.

No I was referring to the previous posts about Edelbrock not copying anybody. They do not even have access to their own system so it does not seem like they can be developing much in the control area.

My whole questioning here was figuring out what you guys are doing with the Mega squirt. I dont know if it is used to replace ECM's, just used for home made injection systems where guys put a throttle body on a manifold and weld in bungs for injectors, or even other custom systems. If its for custom systems then I dont see much of a problem splicing into the harness and controlling this system. I am just trying to learn before I drop about 700 more dollars in this and find out it was not going to change much.

[billr]

Whether they copied anything or not, I am certain they have access to everything involving the product; they just may not let you have access.

My belief is MS is applicable to most any kind of spark-ignited engine; to control fueling, spark, or valve-timing. Drivers for direct injection are not there yet, that would have to be a total DIY effort, but surely could be done; and I expect it will become a "standard option" sooner-or-later if enough MS users see benefit in it .

I have read here "success stories" where MS was used on everything from a 50cc V-8 (yes, fifty cc for the whole engine!) to 22 liter aircraft radials. I, myself, have used the same MS3 unit, with no changes except MSQ and external wiring harness, to run both a 427 BBC and a small single-cylinder flat-head lawnmower engine.

Got it? The versatility and support is there to do pretty much anything you desire.

Edit: PS... If you can solder (or are willing to learn that valuable skill), then start with the MS3 "kit", cutting that $700 about in half!