Audi mc2 10vt on ms3x

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Audi_From_Hell
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Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:31 pm

Audi mc2 10vt on ms3x

Post by Audi_From_Hell »

Hello everybody, I have a '87 4000 Quattro CS that I'm swapping a mc2 10vt engine into and I plan on running it on ms3x. I will be using a 60-2 rear main seal for my crank trigger. I already have the donor engine, fuel rail, digifant injector inserts, modified intake and throttle body, mc2 harness and a few other things. I will be building a custom exhaust manifold, downpipe, exhaust. Plan is to run a gt2871r or gt3071r, probably stay smaller as I'm only aiming for 250awhp on 91 and 300awhp on e85 max.

So now I've got a few questions for the ignition and camshaft position side of things...the plan is to run COP and I'd like to run sequential so keep that in mind. Probably LS2 coils.

1. Would a 5 window locked advance distributor with hall sensor in it work as my CPS? I know people have used this as their camshaft input before but would a 1 window or 5 window dizzy be better? I'd prefer to run the 5 window locked dizzy as they come in the NG engines. I would only be using the dizzy for the hall sensor, I wouldn't be distributing spark from it.

2. Anybody built a CPS for these engines before? I was thinking either a 60-2 wheel or shutter wheel like the AAN's on the camshaft sprocket. Any ideas? I'd love to eliminate the dizzy completely for best timing accuracy if possible. I have access to a machine shop and have a welder for a friend so I can fabricate whats needed as long as I know what to do.

Any tips or suggestions will be appreciated as I know i5's can tend to be a bit more difficult to setup. Thanks!
elaw
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Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 6:20 am
Location: Wilmington, MA

Re: Audi mc2 10vt on ms3x

Post by elaw »

The dizzy makes a fine cam sensor but you definitely need a 1-window, not a 5-window. Actually it's possible a 5-window one could be made to work but it would have to be phased just so and the Megasquirt set up correctly and overall would just be much harder. Whichever one you use, you'll have to disable any advance mechanisms that are present.

Why are you asking about making a crank sensor if you already have the rear main one? That's probably the best setup you can use on these engines, once you get past the hurdles of actually getting your hands on one and what to do with the wire. :? Seriously, it really *is* a good setup and I'd encourage you to use it if you already have the engine and transmission apart.

Otherwise you have a couple of options. If you look around Audi forums and vendors (034 Motorsport) there are 60-2 trigger wheels that can be mounted on the damper pulley. Also with a lot of creativity the factory trigger setup (the one with two sensors on the flywheel) can be made to work although it's really tricky. With some creativity you can also replace the factory sensors with Hall sensors and have a working setup that's much less finicky although you'll need some hard-to-get parts.

For an example of the 60-2 setup, search the Motorgeek.com projects forum for user "DE80Q". For examples of the flywheel trigger setup, search the Motorgeek project forum for user "elaw". In my 4000q thread you can also see a setup with LSx coils... hot tip: 7A plug wires fit the LSx coils perfectly!
Eric Law
1990 Audi 80 quattro with AAN turbo engine: happily running on MS3+MS3X
2012 Audi A4 quattro, desperately in need of tweaking

Be alert! America needs more lerts.
Matt Cramer
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Re: Audi mc2 10vt on ms3x

Post by Matt Cramer »

elaw wrote:The dizzy makes a fine cam sensor but you definitely need a 1-window, not a 5-window. Actually it's possible a 5-window one could be made to work but it would have to be phased just so and the Megasquirt set up correctly and overall would just be much harder. Whichever one you use, you'll have to disable any advance mechanisms that are present.
I actually used the case of a 60-2 crank trigger and 5 tooth cam wheel in the MS3Pro manual for explaining how to use Poll Level mode:

http://www.msextra.com/doc/pdf/html/ms3 ... -0-74.html

5 teeth is actually pretty doable with a Hall effect sensor; it's a distributor with an even number of teeth all the same size that would be unworkable. A one tooth distributor is a bit easier to set up, though.
Matt Cramer -1966 Dodge Dart slant six running on MS3X
Audi_From_Hell
MS/Extra Newbie
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:31 pm

Re: Audi mc2 10vt on ms3x

Post by Audi_From_Hell »

Eric, I was still referring to a camshaft position sensor, not crank. 60-2 rms will take care of everything for the crank. I want to build something for the camshaft sprocket to use instead of the hall sensor in the dizzy but if the hall sensor in the dizzy will be accurate enough in the higher rpms then I'm willing to use it. I just think something setup on the cam sprocket would give better accuracy.
elaw
Super MS/Extra'er
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Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 6:20 am
Location: Wilmington, MA

Re: Audi mc2 10vt on ms3x

Post by elaw »

High accuracy in the cam sensor is rarely needed. There are a few exceptions to that, like if you're using a crank wheel with no missing teeth, but you're not. So I wouldn't worry about it... the one that needs to be accurate for timing is the crank wheel.
Eric Law
1990 Audi 80 quattro with AAN turbo engine: happily running on MS3+MS3X
2012 Audi A4 quattro, desperately in need of tweaking

Be alert! America needs more lerts.
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