Totota 1GZ-FE V12

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Joe V12
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Totota 1GZ-FE V12

Post by Joe V12 »

hi, this is my first ecu motor, after 50 years of restoring and hot-rodding cars with carburetors and distributors, and I could sure use some help. I have this JDM engine cleaned up and in my engine run test stand, and I have brought all the wires to a panel and am just getting started wiring and already I have so much I am not sure of. I have a Toyota 1gz-fe English language engine repair manual. Nowhere in it that I can find does it explicitly show cylinder numbering. I am pretty sure that #1 cylinder is driver's (left) side front, and that bank continues 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, and that the right side is numbered evenly front to back, I have the firing order as 1-4-9-8-5-2-11-10-3-6-7-12 but can anyone tell me for sure that this is so? I have the factory igniters and it seems I can use these, but again, I am not sure, does anyone have experience using these on this motor with the MSP3Pro? Or should I buy some quadsparks? Should I use these Toyota O2 sensors, or get something better? Toyota switched a power resistor in series with the fuel pump during reduced demand periods - am i going to PWM the fuel pump through it's relay, or should i use some other scheme? It seems to me that PWM'ing a relay is not a great idea, could use a transistor or a FET? I have several electric valves switching vacuum - I know two control vacuum to vacuum operated solenoids that open and close the intake length butterflies, what do i do with those wires? I think it should just switch at over a certain RPM, or does it need PWM? There are at least three more of these valves that i think are idle up when the A/C is on and or if the power steering is active? do i need all this stuff? I have the MSP3Pro and harness and am connecting wires, but could really use advise from someone who has been through this, especially about sensors, the DBW throttle bodies/mods to cables, all these vacuum lines and solenoids. Does someone have a source for the parts to easily convert the throttle bodies to cable? Thank you in advance, everyone that has advise on this.

Here is a pic

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3cHxI ... sp=sharing
LAV1000
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Re: Totota 1GZ-FE V12

Post by LAV1000 »

First I don't know much about either of them.
Take a beer or coffee what suits you and start here:
http://www.msextra.com/manuals/ms3promanuals/

Make a list as which input and output go where.
Start whit ignition and injection outputs.

Toyota O2 sensors, if they are no wide band type then they are not much helpfull in tuning your engine.

Fuelpump resistor, why are they using it ?
Does the engine need a fuel pressure or flow drop at idle ?
Joe V12
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Re: Totota 1GZ-FE V12

Post by Joe V12 »

hi, thanks, well, yes, I have the manual. I am assuming I have my cylinder numbering is correct, so I have already hooked up the ms3pro grounds, power, keep alive, and the injectors. I am guessing that the msp3pro will drive my Toyota ignitors, so I have the coils and ignitors wired, with the ignitors cylinder fire inputs hooked to the msp3pro outputs (6 total, this engine has two plugs on each coil and runs in waste spark mode). I am clear on the obvious sensors like temperature, but am not clear on my O2 sensors. I don't know if these Toyota sensors with heaters are a good choice, and am unsure how to connect, or if some other would be better. I am open to suggestion on air intake temperature, because I am not using the Toyota MAF's, I am going to the msp3pro inboard MAP, so need advise on intake air temp. I still need to read my manual more but I think I read that my cam oil control valves should be from PWM outputs, I am not clear on all these little vacuum solenoids, I would guess they would hook to PWM outputs too, but was hoping someone could tell me for sure. also not sure if I need them all - the ones to run the runner length butterflies seem real useful, but all this idle up stuff I thought someone may have come up with a simpler way. On the fuel pump, Toyota switched in a resistor to drop fuel pressure during low demand times (idle?), I would like to know if I should do something similar, or if there is a better scheme? Also, I'm not clear on my crank position sensors, which this engine has two, which I should use and how to connect, was hoping someone that has experience with this engine could straighten me out. I have the engine set up in my engine run test stand, but still need to get an electric fuel pump, not sure which one would be best and if I need to control it to drop pressure during idle. I am not building the motor up any it's stock 300 HP or so is fine, I am putting it in a Miata just for fun (to mess with the local kids with all their Japanese cars), and if I can make this run right, planning to get another 1 or 2 for my Revonton and Murcialago replicas that I am building (NAERC style Frames)
elutionsdesign
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Re: Totota 1GZ-FE V12

Post by elutionsdesign »

I've tuned two of these so far, one went into a 928 and the other a late model Supra. I did not do the build but I can put you in contact with the 928 owner if you PM me some info.


http://oppositelock.kinja.com/somebody- ... 1700001354




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNNSORTJ7yY
Graduate of EFI University.

I build, repair, install and tune Megasquirt systems in North Dakota and beyond!
Joe V12
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Re: Totota 1GZ-FE V12

Post by Joe V12 »

I have been full time on the engine every day since I posted last, been a heck of a learning curve, there is lots more to do but I have the v12 running in my engine run stand, and I have it idling, and now it is responsive to the throttle (I made an Arduino fly by wire circuit so I can use the steppers and TPS's until I find aftermarket TB's with cable linkage or convert these), and found a lot of things to do with how it idles and runs from cold to warmed up. I have had the same couple problems since the beginning and am becoming exasperated so I'll ask a couple questions and hope someone can point me in a right direction. 1st, no matter what I do I am getting errors (red rectangles) after it starts, not before, of VVT1, VVT2 and sometimes the cam rectangle. I started with the ms3pro tune profile that came with the unit and changed as much as I can to make it right for my motor. but I obviously am missing something. 2nd is the passenger side bank is running way leaner than the drivers side. at idle it is barely or not running at all, starts to catch as I raise the rpm, and by 3000 rpm and above it seems to be almost right . any ideas on either of these things? a last thing I just thought of, but haven't beat to death yet; I don't know the flow rates of my injectors, I calculated they should be 250 each, but I had to turn down to 150 to get the motor to stay running after the warm-up enrichment turns off. on the other hand, it fires up immediately and very consistently and sounds really great. ok, I know I need to give more info, and/or maybe upload some files. I am new here, tell me what and which? thanks - joe in the florida keys
LAV1000
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Re: Totota 1GZ-FE V12

Post by LAV1000 »

Post your settings (.msq file) overhere and also a log file which contains the errors.

Lean passengers bank, fuel flow issue ?
Might be a deadtime issue on the injectors.
What happens if you swap those injectors to the passenger side ?
elutionsdesign
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Re: Totota 1GZ-FE V12

Post by elutionsdesign »

More likely an imbalance of air flow since you have two throttle bodies and a home made stepper to run them. If you have an old fashioned (these days) carb flow balance meter we used to use on the weber carbs you could check it out and get it balanced using the throttle stop screws.
Graduate of EFI University.

I build, repair, install and tune Megasquirt systems in North Dakota and beyond!
Joe V12
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Re: Totota 1GZ-FE V12

Post by Joe V12 »

I think I am uploading the msq file
Joe V12
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Re: Totota 1GZ-FE V12

Post by Joe V12 »

Well, elutionsdesign, you are right, it was the smallest of change (<0.5%) to the throttle body opening that fixed the passenger side mixture problem. I had looked at that early on and corrected an originally couple % difference to within 1.0% and thought that was good. I didn't look close enough; peering closely at my vacuum guage, there was about a 0.3 inch of Hg difference of manifold vacuum between sides and making them exactly the same fixed the problem. Now I have to re-think my intake set-up. I think that I will either have to live with the old multi-carb problem of mechanically balancing/adjusting the two TBs or, much better, come up with a new scheme to use the computer to balance the sides at the critical idle/low rpms. Toyota had the manifolds separated; I would guess that they had closed loop around each side's O2 sensor and the TB? Currently I have cross coupled the manifolds (at the plenums). front of the engine with 1/4 inch hose with a tee in the middle connected to the MS3 MAP sensor, and in the rear with 3/8 hose, tee in the middle to a BMW PWM IAC valve. Maybe I can separate them again and use two Map sensors and two IAC valves? I hope you have an opinion on this, or a better idea?

LAV1000 , thank you for your input too. I did figure out where my msq files are and uploaded my current one

I hope you'll look at my settings and explore my cam/vvt conflicts/errors. (and whatever else I need to address). I haven't figured out logging/log files yet, but it is on my to-do list.

Thank you both for helping with this.
elutionsdesign
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Re: Totota 1GZ-FE V12

Post by elutionsdesign »

Post up a datalog, under Data Logging tab which will show issues, it doesn't need to be real long and hopefully the engine would be running but if now that's OK too. Also post up a composite log, under Diagnostics and High Speed Loggers tab, be sure to click "Capture to Log File". That log shows the actual cam and crank signals the ECU sees which will help diagnose the issues, we'll want a couple of minutes of run time.

Oops, I see an issue, you want to replace "toothed wheel" under ignition settings with 2JZ VVTi. There are three cam teeth and toothed wheel can handle only one. James redid the 2JZ setting to allow the straight six as well as the V8 UZ and the V12 GZ, the number of cylinders under Engine and Sequential Settings sets the correct decoder.

As far as the throttle body imbalance once you get the correct ignition settings and its running true sequential injection you can bias the fuel bank to bank using the fuel trims. That might be a whole lot easier than fighting the throttle bodies, just balance them as best you can and take care of the remainder with the individual fuel trims.
Graduate of EFI University.

I build, repair, install and tune Megasquirt systems in North Dakota and beyond!
Joe V12
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Re: Totota 1GZ-FE V12

Post by Joe V12 »

OK elutionsdesign, I will figure that out the logging next. I first got the motor started using the 2JZ settings, used it to iron out all my first issues, but it had vvt1 and vvv2 and cam errors, so I then switched to toothed wheel, seemed to work exactly the same. I will go back to 2JZ setting, and go from there. thank you for the directions, Joe
Joe V12
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Re: Totota 1GZ-FE V12

Post by Joe V12 »

Hi, I think I made the 2 files you recommended and am uploading now. motor is a little hard to start cold, which it is in these files, but revs up like a beast. OOPS, I uploaded the first file, but it says the second is to big, 1 meg limit and it is 1 1/2. so I just compressed it using WinRAR, I think, am uploading it now. thank you.
LAV1000
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Re: Totota 1GZ-FE V12

Post by LAV1000 »

Did take a look at your msl file.
But to me it looks like your missing some fields like :rpm, Airtemp,Cooling temp, O2 sensors ???
Joe V12
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Re: Totota 1GZ-FE V12

Post by Joe V12 »

Hi LAV1000, thank you for looking. I just ran the logging with whatever was setup in there. Am I supposed to put those in to be logged? or those fields are in there but are not being logged, or aren't setup/working? this is the first time I opened that logging feature, so I am not sure what I am doing, but I didn't mess with any settings, just ran it.
LAV1000
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Re: Totota 1GZ-FE V12

Post by LAV1000 »

Joe V12
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Re: Totota 1GZ-FE V12

Post by Joe V12 »

I added those variables you mentioned to my logging, here is a cold and almost warm set of logging
elutionsdesign
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Re: Totota 1GZ-FE V12

Post by elutionsdesign »

Move everything to the logged data, everything. And take and post a composite log from Diagnostics and High Speed Loggers tab.
Graduate of EFI University.

I build, repair, install and tune Megasquirt systems in North Dakota and beyond!
Joe V12
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Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2017 3:44 pm

Re: Totota 1GZ-FE V12

Post by Joe V12 »

I moved everything to the logging. this includes from off to ignition, started running idle and a couple revs. I have been struggling with trying to get my dual cam settings to work, but no luck yet. I am also going to rewire my o2 controllers with better power and ground. I just connected them in the dash and it obviously isn't good enough. hope you guys can point to some settings that need to be corrected. thank you.
elutionsdesign
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Re: Totota 1GZ-FE V12

Post by elutionsdesign »

Need the composite log to see the cam signals.
Graduate of EFI University.

I build, repair, install and tune Megasquirt systems in North Dakota and beyond!
jacky4566
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Re: Totota 1GZ-FE V12

Post by jacky4566 »

Bunch of things i see.

Can you include the latest MSQ with each log. We need to see the changes you made like using JZ timing mode.
Your idle timing looks really low. 5 degrees at idle? Adjust the timing for maximum vacuum.
Turn off idle advance settings. You shouldn't need it. Follow Matt's guide to idling. and bump up the lowest ignition bin by 4 degrees. https://www.diyautotune.com/support/tec ... egasquirt/
Your AFR is flatlined at 10. This means your sensor isnt wire right. Perhaps you wired in the narrow band output? We arnt going to be able to help much without it.
Don't worry about MAT right now till you got this running perfect at one temp.
turn off ego control for now.
The injectors. Did you get them cleaned and flow tested? Did you measure the dead time or are you guessing?
Why do you have such random injector trims? I would start with a flat % for the exact flow of each injector then once the car is tip top you can start per cylinder trimming. Example if one injector flow 122cc/125cc the trim is 2.4%

I wanna see this thing roar! :D
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