Looking for BASIC ecu for a big block ford

[zimm]

I am new to efi, and want something cheap to play around... this is for a DIY boosted project and here are my needs...

8 or 16 injector ...
I do not want sequential ability just basic fuel might try e85 or alky..

Big block ford 460 block

I want to control timing through my 7531 box

what all do I need to buy, i also have my own boost controller ams 2000 from another project...

Can i use my basic MSD Pro distributor, my 7531 box and coil .... batch fuel is fine with me so let me know what I can get by with to get my feet wet in the efi game

[Drew442]

microsquirt or ms2 would do the trick. Using the msd kit would work fine too. A factory tfi setup would work fine too if you want to sell the msd to help fund the project.

As for staged injection, I'd say just go big instead of staged. What's the horsepower target so that we can do some calculations. You need to make the decision on what fuels you want to use now though.

Sent from my MI 5 using Tapatalk

[zimm]

ms2 may work I used one on a motorcycle before,,, but it had a crank trigger... no idea how to set one up on a BBF ---

1000+ hp I want to use alcohol with some huge injectors if the MS2 will let me??? like i said I will control timing, and boost through my other devices

[zimm]

oh it will be low imped billet injectors 330lb x 8

[Paul_VR6]

The only issue with microsquirt would be those injectors, they would need a resistor box or additional peak and hold driver like https://www.diyautotune.com/product/41- ... ubharness/

Though with a big motor, alky and lots of boost it would seem a bit silly to skimp a bit here and not go to a ms3 or ms3-pro solution.

[zimm]

I do not need the injector driver when using a Megasquirt 2 correct just the microsquirt? I am thinking about building a megasquirt 2 or 3 with the map daddy 4 bar sensor package..

[billr]

"Though with a big motor, alky and lots of boost it would seem a bit silly to skimp a bit here and not go to a ms3 or ms3-pro solution."[/i

^^^ +!!! $100 difference between MS3 and MS2? Hardly more than a couple tanks of fuel.

Start out using a real crank wheel, too. Don't hamper/confuse this build trying to use a dizzy trigger. Do ignition first, not fuel. That will let you get past the CKP/sync issues quicker and easier. You can keep it simple, using the single-coil and dizzy for now, then easily upgrade to wasted-spark or COP later.

[zimm]

Okay so MS3 -

what are the issues using a dizzy + my 7531 box? No one makes a crank wheel for a BBF and I don't wanna get to deep into figuring out wiring / issues when I am just trying to get the car running that why I wanted to start out with fuel only first... if there is a simple solution for Big Block Ford I am all for it... do not want to use coil on plug

[DaveEFI]

Thing is a basic MegaSquirt isn't plug and play, so there will still be quite a bit of wiring to figure out. Even with an engine which is already injection. If it's not, there will be a lot of wiring to sort out.
I'd also want rid of the dizzy - or aim to at a later point.

[zimm]

what kind of wiring with a dizzy besides the basic injectors sensors etc... the goal for sure will be to go with a reluctor wheel but it will have to be custom made to work..... this is not gonna be a high boost setup 7-10 right now like I said just want to get it going...


how do i set it up for fuel only right now... and what do I need to do in 6 months to get full control ... most likely going to order the megasquit 3 diy kit

[billr]

Crank wheels are rather easy retrofit on most V8s, nothing too "custom" needed. Yes, some fab skills/tools will be needed, but you can make a not-so-pretty wheel/sensor install with very basic tools. Did the Ford 460 family ever have EDIS? If so, then the necessary parts will be available as OEM parts, hopefully from a junk-yard.

Is that "7531 box" an ignition control with coil driver, rev limit, stuff like that? The MS will have all that "built in", and probably more. Don't make things more complicted by having to know the details for the 7531 as well as MS; that kind of doubles your possible ignition troubles. Too many cooks in the kitchen... The problem with using a dizzy as the CKP origin is that slop in the cam drive, along with drive from the cam to the dizzy, detracts from the accuracy of all events, including spark timing. Generally, dizzy-based CKP sensing has far less resolution than a real crank wheel. This means there are bigger crank angles where the ECU doesn't really know where the crank is; especially during rapid engine accel or decel.

No matter what kind of sensor the dizzy has, MS has a way to connect to it, just a couple of simple wires to the dizzy and to the coil.

For fuel only, you need the same CKP sensing, although accuracy is usually not so important, but will run into the full gamut of fueling tuning details. I suggested you do the ignition first (again, even as single-coil) because it is easier and you can avoid some frustration getting all the basics installed and "known good" before tackling the fueling.

[Raymond_B]

Looks like F250s all the way up to 97 or 98 used 460s. Here's a thread I found googling with some pictures. It does indeed have a crank sensor. The wheel looks like it's only 4 tooth, but there is one so it could be replaced with a 36-1. Looks like some junkyard scrounging could net some parts.

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/8726 ... -97-a.html

[billr]

I'm reading that the 460 never was blessed with EDIS and a crank wheel. Its final config was an 8-tooth dizzy reluctor that can only do "basic rigger".

[DaveEFI]

what kind of wiring with a dizzy besides the basic injectors sensors etc... the goal for sure will be to go with a reluctor wheel but it will have to be custom made to work..... this is not gonna be a high boost setup 7-10 right now like I said just want to get it going...

Making up a loom for the injection side is far more involved than for the ignition side. But no reason not to start off fuel only -I did with mine. But don't think it's a job which can be done in an afternoon.

how do i set it up for fuel only right now... and what do I need to do in 6 months to get full control ... most likely going to order the megasquit 3 diy kit

MS3 is a very good choice as it has more options. And what tends to happen with many is they get a basic installation working well (batch injection) then wonder if sequential would be better. Spend some evenings reading the manual, a bit at a time.

If you can assembly the V3 board yourself which requires good soldering skills etc, do so, and refer to the schematic for each stage as you go. That will help learn what it all does.

[Paul_VR6]

Based on your requirements, I would do ms2 or 3 on a v3 board. Batch fire but pwm on the injectors so no resistor or driver box. You can always upgrade later...

Should be no trouble using the msd as a trigger either from its tach output or your distributor directly. The how will depend on what you choose.

[zimm]

Thanks for all the tips... I am going to attempt to build the ecu myself, start with fuel and as soon as it drives on its own and makes a few passes I am going to look into fitting a reluctor wheel into the equation.. baby steps I do not want to use a 4 tooth old f250 wheel if I am going to do it ill spend the time and do it right so I would rather wait until I get to that point you know what I mean....

my question is now are you 100% sure the Megasquirt 3 will run Moran Billet Atomizer injectors with no driver box???

[DaveEFI]

Thanks for all the tips... I am going to attempt to build the ecu myself, start with fuel and as soon as it drives on its own and makes a few passes I am going to look into fitting a reluctor wheel into the equation.. baby steps I do not want to use a 4 tooth old f250 wheel if I am going to do it ill spend the time and do it right so I would rather wait until I get to that point you know what I mean....

my question is now are you 100% sure the Megasquirt 3 will run Moran Billet Atomizer injectors with no driver box???

It's the V3 PCB which has clever injector drivers (only 2) which are needed to drive low-Z injectors directly. And the V3 board is common to MS2 &3. It does this using PWM, which has to be configured in software.
The MS3X has 8 drivers on an additional board (for sequential) but these can't drive lo-Z directly.

[Raymond_B]

Thanks for all the tips... I am going to attempt to build the ecu myself, start with fuel and as soon as it drives on its own and makes a few passes I am going to look into fitting a reluctor wheel into the equation.. baby steps I do not want to use a 4 tooth old f250 wheel if I am going to do it ill spend the time and do it right so I would rather wait until I get to that point you know what I mean....

my question is now are you 100% sure the Megasquirt 3 will run Moran Billet Atomizer injectors with no driver box???

Yeah I never meant that you would use the stock wheel, see my comment about fitting a 36-1 wheel. However the timing cover has a provision for a sensor, so a late model cover could help. Or you can simply pick up a used crank trigger as a starting point to build your own.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[racingmini_mtl]

my question is now are you 100% sure the Megasquirt 3 will run Moran Billet Atomizer injectors with no driver box???

If you want to drive 16 low impedance injectors, I would say that you will want to use the 8 MS3X injector drivers with an external driver box as primary injectors (potentially sequentially when you're ready for that) and 8 injectors in bank mode from the 2 main board drivers (without any external box) as the secondary injectors.

The 8 MS3X drivers cannot directly drive low impedance injectors. And driving more than 4 low impedance injectors per driver from the 2 main board drivers (either the V3.0 or the V3.57 board) is not recommended (even though some have driven more injectors per driver, doing so may lead to problems).

Jean

[zimm]

I got a deal on one set large enough for me needs so for now I am just going to run 8 injectors? I take it I don't need the expansion board yet until I go full blown sequential setup and coil packs.