HEI implementation questions

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defiance
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HEI implementation questions

Post by defiance »

I'm prepping for MS-II, and have been installing a GM 7-pin HEI in my charger. I think I've got it done, but since my dash and instrument cluster is in about 300 pieces right now (FINALLY getting the interior restoration going :) ), I can't really start it and test. But I made two assumptions that I wanted to verify.
1) I read that the HEI runs in a 'limp-home' 10* advance mode if it's not getting an ECU signal. So, for the immediate future, I figured I could leave my distributor mech & vac advance enabled, but just retard the timing 10*. This should work until MS-II (at which point I'll lock down the vac & mech advance and hook up the advance control), right? Or am I overlooking something?
2) For the 'start' override -- There's no 'run but not start' wire under my hood - there are some under the dash, but it occured to me that it would be easier to set up the relay such that the output is normally connected to the 5v vref connection, then disconnects when the relay is activated by the starter. The vref turns off when the ms turns off, so it doesn't have to be disconnected when the key is off. Also, just for good measure, I went ahead and grounded the normally open contact, so instead of releasing it to ground on start, it actually grounds it. This, too, should work, I think... Anyone see any reason why it won't?
Now just gotta find meself an IAC :)
The years-long project: http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?t=3043

Other info (stereo, interior, etc):
http://www.sounddomain.com/ride/2324498
defiance
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Posts: 144
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 7:48 pm
Location: Little Rock, AR
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Post by defiance »

Ergh - Ok, the start relay's working (that pin shows 5v when key on, gnd when starting). But now I've got another problem. I lost tach signal... This probably would better fit in the wiring group, but I figured since I already had this thread open I'd try it first. So, here's what I've got:
With the HEI installed, I've got spark - I can pull it and watch it spark - but no RPM in MS... Well, when I first hit the starter, it pulses to "3000", but immediately drops back to 0... Then when I release the starter, it pulses "3000" again, and drops back to 0 again. Before, I had it on the negative of the coil, and it worked fine. I would consider moving it back to the coil, but with MS-II, I can't use the coil for tach. So, I think maybe the signal's just too weak, and after some skimming, I come across a suggestion that a 4-pin be used specifically for tach. After a trip to auto zone, I've got a 4-pin in there now ... I just spliced the '+' from my 7-pin to the 'B' of the 4-pin, Disconnected the tach from the 7-pin and hooked it to the 'C' of the 4-pin, put a 470-ohm resistor between those two, then connected the 7-pin 'P' to the 4-pin 'W' and the 7-pin 'n' to the 4-pin 'G'. This seems like it should work to me... But still no tach in MS (same 3000-pulse when touching or releasing the starter). Now I'm really confused; that REALLY should've worked..
So to test it, I pulled connected the 4-pin 'C' to the negative of the coil to see if it was pulsing... nothing. So, either somethings wrong with the brand new 4-pin HEI, or something's wrong with the way I connected it. But even at that, why wouldn't the 7-pin's tach signal work? Argh...
Anyway, any insight or suggestions are welcome.
The years-long project: http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?t=3043

Other info (stereo, interior, etc):
http://www.sounddomain.com/ride/2324498
jsmcortina
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Post by jsmcortina »

This problems sounds a little similar to the "engine dies below 1000rpm" topic. While that is trying to use MSnS-extra firmware those guys are seemingly having a problem getting a reliable tach signal from an HEI7.

The module I tested on the table worked just fine with the standard 390R for R10, so I don't quite know what is going on.

James

PS. I don't like the new fade effect on megasquirt.info at all - yuk!
defiance
Helpful MS/Extra'er
Posts: 144
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 7:48 pm
Location: Little Rock, AR
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Post by defiance »

Hm... Well, I tried on the coil, and sure enough, it works - runs without a hitch - but I've gotta fix this right eventually :)

I checked the wiring, and there's no problem at all with it; it's clean from the HEI to the MS. So, I pulled the actual tachometer and connected it to the MS and it reads perfectly ... So the tach has output ... I'm going over the tach signal portion of assembly on the box right now to see if there's something I can change to make it more readily read this signal... I've got XG1 & XG2 jumpered... Any other suggestions of what to check or do?
The years-long project: http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?t=3043

Other info (stereo, interior, etc):
http://www.sounddomain.com/ride/2324498
defiance
Helpful MS/Extra'er
Posts: 144
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 7:48 pm
Location: Little Rock, AR
Contact:

Post by defiance »

Woo! Got it running. I think maybe my 7-pin HEI is bad, or wierd, or something... What I ended up doing is just putting a 1k ohm pullup resistor between the tach pin and the 12v pin. My logic for doing this was that I could stimulate the tach line with 12v while it was trying to start, and it would read a tach pulse when I released it - so it seemed like instead of pulsing ground, the line was just holding ground. The pullup seemed to be a logical solution, and worked.
Having said that, is there anything that might be harmed by this pullup? I don't think so, but a second opinion never hurts :)

Now - I'm ready for MS-II! It's just a matter of plugging it in, tacking on the control wire, locking the mech/vac advance, and connecting my 5vref line; I'm quite looking forward to it :)
The years-long project: http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?t=3043

Other info (stereo, interior, etc):
http://www.sounddomain.com/ride/2324498
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