Still no start

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grom_e30
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Re: Still no start

Post by grom_e30 »

are your coils on the main ecu fuse thats blowing?
1990 bmw 320i daily driver with m20b25 ms3 sequential fuel, 380cc injectors, d585 coil near plug, home made cam sync, launch control, fan control, vss, homebrew egt logging what's next????
balzonya
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Re: Still no start

Post by balzonya »

grom_e30 wrote:are your coils on the main ecu fuse thats blowing?
No, it was actually my ignition switch wiring. the previous owner was even less of a mechanic than me. haha. wire nuts and sub-par wiring everywhere.
balzonya
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Re: Still no start

Post by balzonya »

really no updates. fixed the fuse blowing problem. fixed some other electrical issues. but the trucks been on the back burner for a while now.
last night spent sometime trying to start it with no luck.
sounds great. sounds perfectly normal except for the fact that it just wont start up.

gonna post all the logs i recorded last night. hopefully you guys can see what im still doing wrong.
Attachments
datalog50de.msl
(117.33 KiB) Downloaded 31 times
compositlog.csv
(22.67 KiB) Downloaded 28 times
synclog.csv
(17.82 KiB) Downloaded 29 times
balzonya
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Re: Still no start

Post by balzonya »

more logs...
Attachments
triggerlog.csv
(18.06 KiB) Downloaded 24 times
toothlog.csv
(22.43 KiB) Downloaded 29 times
datalog2.msl
(76.1 KiB) Downloaded 31 times
LAV1000
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Re: Still no start

Post by LAV1000 »

Toothlogger, only first set of tooths is 34 and all the others are 35, don't bother for now.

Battery drops from 11.0V to 7.5V :cry:
Battery is in in bad shape or it needs a full recharge.
A healthy battery fully charged should be around 12.5V whit no load.
Yours is dying or very much discharged.

Your voltage is dropping to low for the MegaSquirt system.
balzonya
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Re: Still no start

Post by balzonya »

LAV1000 wrote:Toothlogger, only first set of tooths is 34 and all the others are 35, don't bother for now.

Battery drops from 11.0V to 7.5V :cry:
Battery is in in bad shape or it needs a full recharge.
A healthy battery fully charged should be around 12.5V whit no load.
Yours is dying or very much discharged.

Your voltage is dropping to low for the MegaSquirt system.
what happens to the MS system when the voltage is to low? just wondering.
took those logs after a night of cranking but i think the battery is just done/shot. ill log again tonight with a fresh battery.

what do you mean about the toothlogs?
LAV1000
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Re: Still no start

Post by LAV1000 »

Toothlogger, toothlog;
Looking at the right low corner you have 4 sets of toothlog (1-4)
In set 1 you start with a very long tooth than some short ones and the first real missing tooth, twice the time lenght of the nearest short ones.
If you count from that first real missing tooth till the second one (included) you count 34 teeth.
On all the missing tooth after this it is 35.

MS needs a certain minimum Voltage to work right I think it is somewhere around 9.0V
This is because the regulator for 5.0 V needs a view volts more then 5.0V to work right.
And you need some margin extra to be sure it does produce a steady 5.0V.
System may act weird if it is occasionally dropping below 5.0V.
balzonya
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Re: Still no start

Post by balzonya »

LAV1000 wrote:Toothlogger, toothlog;
Looking at the right low corner you have 4 sets of toothlog (1-4)
In set 1 you start with a very long tooth than some short ones and the first real missing tooth, twice the time lenght of the nearest short ones.
If you count from that first real missing tooth till the second one (included) you count 34 teeth.
On all the missing tooth after this it is 35.

MS needs a certain minimum Voltage to work right I think it is somewhere around 9.0V
This is because the regulator for 5.0 V needs a view volts more then 5.0V to work right.
And you need some margin extra to be sure it does produce a steady 5.0V.
System may act weird if it is occasionally dropping below 5.0V.
any ideas why that might have shown 34 in that first one?

besides that odd one, did the tooth log look good? cause i havent know forsure if i wired the VR sensor up right (found the diagram for mine today so ill check the wiring tonight) and still not sure which ignition input capture to use. looked right on which ever setting i had it on when i recorded the logs.

ok i will get that battery issue fixed right away. and ill log right away before i waste the charge.
billr
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Re: Still no start

Post by billr »

I browsed through this thread, and the only MSQ I saw was posted at the beginning of the thread, quite a while ago. Is it still current?
balzonya
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Re: Still no start

Post by balzonya »

billr wrote:I browsed through this thread, and the only MSQ I saw was posted at the beginning of the thread, quite a while ago. Is it still current?
no its not. i forgot to post one. i will in a little
LAV1000
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Re: Still no start

Post by LAV1000 »

34 tooth might be a low voltage issue or starter motor struggles to overtake compression.
Both are low voltage issues.

Otherwise toothlog looks good.
It only happens on the first crank rotation, don't bother for now.
When all other settings are good it will run.

Slight chance it looses sync at higher rpm, but depending on system its a potmeter setting or adding a resistor.
GML
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Re: Still no start

Post by GML »

Hey what 440cc injectors are you using?
balzonya
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Re: Still no start

Post by balzonya »

ok worked on it a bit tonight. threw a good battery, just bought a few months ago. 12.4 volts when i hooked it up. forgot to log cause im a dumbass.
it cranks like normal. messed with timing and fuel settings. it got pretty close to starting a few times. tomorrow im gonna document my findings and settings changes cause messing with it is messing me up cause i forget what settings it was at when it almost starts.

posting a fresh MSQ file so you guys can take a look and see what im overlooking. i know there is more than a few setting that are off cause i was trying to mess with some settings in hopes that i was misunderstanding the manual. so if you see any let me know.

but i really think this has to be a timing issue. something to do with the trigger wheel/vr sensor. cause theres a good amount of misfires with popping/back firing in the intake. i dont think its a fuel issue cause i smell gas and we get some smoke sometimes and i dont think its a spark issue cause i can hear it fire, it just seems to be at the wrong time.

pulled the valve cover and checked to make sure that cylinder 1 was at TDC, checked the trigger wheel, first tooth after the gap (tooth #1) is at TDC. VR sensor is 6 teeth from tooth #1 or 5 gaps that = 50 degrees BTDC (thats from the manual)

so my board has been "modded" for the LS1 coils and vr sensor but i think these are a huge part of my problem. question is, can i go back to the cap and rotor without having to mod my board again? its a toyota and has that stupid VAST ignition system but i was gonna use just the bare coil and remove that ignition controller and control the coil with the MS board. would this work?
Attachments
2017-10-10_20.27.38.msq
(117.63 KiB) Downloaded 37 times
balzonya
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Re: Still no start

Post by balzonya »

GML wrote:Hey what 440cc injectors are you using?
theyre from a toyota supra. low impedance. i think they were like 3 ohms.
LAV1000
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Re: Still no start

Post by LAV1000 »

Don't you ever dare to get back to cap and rotor ignition :D

You are close to a working system, like I explained before there is nothing wrong whit the current VR set up.

Use output test function to check if your ignition coils ignite the right cillinder.

Check manual for start up and settings.

First time I used it, I printed a part of the manual and made notes on it for my settings.
To remember what and why I did it.

Did take a look at the msq file and noticed some things.
Your runnig a turbo 163 kPA ?
Injectors PWM on ?
Ignition is Fixed advance ?
balzonya
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Re: Still no start

Post by balzonya »

LAV1000 wrote:Don't you ever dare to get back to cap and rotor ignition :D

You are close to a working system, like I explained before there is nothing wrong whit the current VR set up.

Use output test function to check if your ignition coils ignite the right cillinder.

Check manual for start up and settings.

First time I used it, I printed a part of the manual and made notes on it for my settings.
To remember what and why I did it.

Did take a look at the msq file and noticed some things.
Your runnig a turbo 163 kPA ?
Injectors PWM on ?
Ignition is Fixed advance ?
haha, alright alright! i wont go back. i didnt want to but im running out of options at this point to try get her running before winter.
i have not tried the output tests yet cause i didnt want to hurt anything. ill give those a go tonight.

printing the manual is a good idea. thats how i remember stuff at work so should work at home.

yes im running a turbo but theres no way im building that much pressure from cranking.

the PWM current limiting? its on because i have low-z injectors. said on the screen it should be on. should i try it off?

i switched it to fixed advanced out of desperation. should that be changed?
LAV1000
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Re: Still no start

Post by LAV1000 »

Fixed advance:
Ignition timing is fixed to 10 degr BTDC in this case.
So what ever revs the engine makes ignition stays timed at 10 degr BTDC, remind this when checking timing whit strobe.
And yes you need to strobe the timing to be sure timing isn't drifting.
If you want it to follow the ignition table you have to select "Use table".

For PWM signal:
Check manual on this or the injector specs on this.
If you using "current limiter" you also need to adjust the values.
100% is no limit you might damage the injector.
Check the question marks on this.
balzonya
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Re: Still no start

Post by balzonya »

WHat kind of “Fuel VE table 1” values should a be seeing for my set up? I know this will need to be fine tuned and all but what kind of base numbers should I be seeing just to get the d*** thing started? Cause I see gas on the plug and on top of the piston when I checked but I’m not really smelling gas most the time. If I mess with the timing, then I smell gas. But with the “correct” settings I don’t smell much gas.

I have http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/MTXL.php wideband o2 sensor. What setting for calibration do it use? It’s a innovate MTX-L
Last edited by balzonya on Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
balzonya
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Re: Still no start

Post by balzonya »

LAV1000 wrote:
Did take a look at the msq file and noticed some things.
Your runnig a turbo 163 kPA ?
what did you mean by this?
billr
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Re: Still no start

Post by billr »

Does it fire at all now when cranking? Fueling for engine start is set with the "cranking pulse" and "priming pulse" (if used), the VE table has no effect until the cranking threshold rpm is reached.
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