Innovative direct serial datalogging

Questions specific to Megatune. (Only about the tuning software, not about MS1/MS2 code or code features)
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Innovative direct serial datalogging

Postby mega_user » Sun Dec 21, 2008 10:50 am

After coming across some other tuning software (specific for Honda) I noticed they offer to read the A/F ratio diretly from the LC-1 serial port. Like the Logworks software.

This coul be probably also done through Megatune. Instead of wiring the O2 analog output from the LC-1 to the O2 input on the Megasquirt, Megatune could directly read the digital data from the second COM port (with the help of some USB to serial adapter)

Did anyone thought about this option?

More info here
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/reso ... otocol.php
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Re: Innovative direct serial datalogging

Postby LT401Vette » Sat Jan 03, 2009 11:38 am

The latest TunerStudio in development can connect to multiple ECU's concurrently, I'm guessing it would be simple enough to setup an LC-1 as a ECU. I'll look into it.
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Re: Innovative direct serial datalogging

Postby mega_user » Sat Feb 07, 2009 12:18 pm

That would greatly improve a/f accurancy and simplfy the wiring.
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Re: Innovative direct serial datalogging

Postby tomo iowuk » Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:48 am

are youtalking about the 3.5 jacks ? if so that would be a good idea,
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Re: Innovative direct serial datalogging

Postby boostforfun » Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:23 pm

This is a good idea... someone much smarter than me should think it through :RTFM:
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Re: Innovative direct serial datalogging

Postby kritip » Thu Mar 26, 2009 4:38 am

It would be good if tunerstudio could link up to it, but really having it go directly to the ECU in replacement of the analog input is the best idea. So that the ECU can make use of it for all the fuelling calcs. Unless i am confused what you are saying?

Its a serial stream so would need decoding by the MS involving code changes.

Advantage is that there is no limit on the AFR values it sends out, no noise on the input, etc.

You need to reverse engineer or find the structure of the data it streams out though. Maybe better asking on the innovate forums for help :)

This could also be applied to the LM2 etc. But unless there is a developer who sees a specific need for this, then it's probably not going to happen.

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Re: Innovative direct serial datalogging

Postby kritip » Thu Mar 26, 2009 4:44 am

The below is for the LM1, so no use for LC1, LM2, but looking at the bottom the spec is available on request. The below is posted for reference.


Innovate Serial Protocol #1

Date: 10/17/2003(.pdf version)

The LM-1 will output serial data always whether recording is on or off.

1. Serial Interface Settings

The LM-1 serial interface is set to

8 data bits
1 stop bit
no parity
19.2 kBaud.


2. Serial Protocol Format

The serial data consists of packets of 16 bytes (in normal operation every 81.92 msec).

The packets are organized as eight 16 bit numbers in big endian order.

Only the first Byte of a packet has the high bit set to denote a packet start.

The following table shows the bit/word order of a packet.
The descriptions of each WORD follows below.

The length of eight numbers may not be assumed. LM-1 versions without aux input may only send the first three words. LM1's with more than 5 aux inputs can send more words. During Warmup or error conditions the LM-1 may send only the first two words.

WORD Bit
15 14 13 12 11 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0

0 1 R F3 F2 F1 F0 0 AF7 0 AF6 AF5 AF4 AF3 AF2 AF1 AF0
1 0 0 L12 L11 L10 L9 L8 L7 0 L6 L5 L4 L3 L2 L1 L0
2 0 0 mb2 mb1 mb0 bv9 bv8 bv7 0 bv6 bv5 bv4 bv4 bv2 bv1 bv0
3..7 0 0 0 0 0 Aux9 Aux8 Aux7 0 Aux6 Aux5 Aux4 Aux3 Aux2 Aux1 Aux0


The first word of a packet contains function/status information.
The second word contains Lambda or status detail information.
The third word contains the battery voltage as seen by the LM-1.
The remaining words contain digitized auxiliary input data digitized to 10 bits.

2.1 Function/Status Word (Word 0)


Bit 15 of always set

Bit 14 (R) is set if currently recording to Flash in LM-1

Bit 13..10 (Func3..0) are function/status bits how interpret the next word (Lambda Word).

Func3..0

0000 Lambda valid and Aux data valid, normal operation.
0001 Lambda value contains O2 level in 1/10%
0010 Free air Calib in progress, Lambda data not valid
0011 Need Free air Calibration Request, Lambda data not valid
0100 Warming up, Lambda value is temp in 1/10% of operating temp.
0101 Heater Calibration, Lambda value contains calibration countdown.
0110 Error code in Lambda value
0111 Lambda Value is Flash level in 1/10%
1xxx reserved

Bit 8 contains high bit (bit 7) of AFR multiplier (AF7)

Bit 7 always 0

Bit 6..0 contain remaining 7 bits of AFR multiplier (AF6..AF0).

AFR multiplier is stochiometric AFR value of current fuel setting in the LM-1 times 10. E.g. 147 for gasoline (14.7).
Air/Fuel Ratio = ((L12..L0) + 500)* (AF7..0) / 10000


2.2 Lambda Word (Word 1)

Lambda in 0.001 Lambda increments when F3..F0 is 0000, offset by 0.5 Lambda.

L = 0 -> 0.5 Lambda
L = 1022 -> 1.522 Lambda
L = 1023 Lambda = 1.523
L = 8191 Lambda = 8.691


2.3 Battery Voltage (Word 2)

Battery voltage digitized to 10 bit (bv9..bv0) and battery divider (mb2..mb0). Calculate battery voltage in Volt as
bv * 5 * mb / 1023.


2.4 Aux Input (Word 3..7)

Aux Inputs digitized to 10 bits. 0 = 0V, 1023 = 5V.

If RPM converter is used, Multiply WORD 3 value by 10 to get rpm.

Note: The serial protocol spec 1 is used for the LM-1 (six channel) only. The LC-1 and other Innovate products utilize serial protocol 2 (32 channels). Serial protocol 2 is available by request. Please contact technical support; please include information on your application and if the device in which the serial protocol will be used in will be for resale.
We also offer an SDK that is available for download on our Support page.

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Re: Innovative direct serial datalogging

Postby mega_user » Sat Dec 19, 2009 2:29 pm

Did anyone in the development team took a look at this possibility?
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Re: Innovative direct serial datalogging

Postby LT401Vette » Sat Dec 19, 2009 2:44 pm

I have, it looks pretty straight forward, I just haven't gotten to it yet.
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Re: Innovative direct serial datalogging

Postby firebat45 » Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:22 pm

Has anything happened with this? It would be especially nice for people running more than one sensor, because of the serial chain.
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Re: Innovative direct serial datalogging

Postby racingmini_mtl » Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:37 pm

Yes, this has been implemented in my I/O Extender. You can read up to 8 LC1s in a chain and send the digital data over CAN to either an MS2/Extra or MS3 ECU. However, only the MS3 can actually use all 8. The MS2/Extra ECU can use 2 and log the others as raw data.

This is not exactly what was discussed here but it is better in that the ECU can actually use the data and not just log it. If this was done on the PC, the ECU would not see the data being logged.

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Re: Innovative direct serial datalogging

Postby firebat45 » Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:58 pm

That's great that you've done this. It looks like your expander is sort of a replacement/competitor to the MS3X card? Is there any point to having both?
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Re: Innovative direct serial datalogging

Postby racingmini_mtl » Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:17 pm

firebat45 wrote:That's great that you've done this. It looks like your expander is sort of a replacement/competitor to the MS3X card? Is there any point to having both?

No, this is completely different from the MS3X card both in what it can do and in purpose. The MS3X gives you circuits for the additional real time I/Os that MS3 provides. The I/O Extender is a complement to the MS3 (or MS2/Extra) that uses the CAN bus to provide additional features and/or additional I/O ports.

And since it uses the CAN bus, you cannot use it for any I/O that has to be tied to a specific engine timing such as injector, ignition, tach trigger,... This is not a limitation specific to the IOx but to any device using the CAN bus due to the bus latency.

So, as far as I know, most of the MS3 users who also have an IOx do have an MS3X. The MS3X is usually the best way to implement sequential injection and ignition with an MS3.

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Re: Innovative direct serial datalogging

Postby kritip » Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:59 pm

Does the latency of the CAN make it unsuitable for using the LC1 to control EGO etc?

Is it purely for logging purposes?

I am interested if it can be used for EGO, live analysis etc as I'd imagine the signal will be much cleaner.

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Re: Innovative direct serial datalogging

Postby racingmini_mtl » Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:12 pm

The CAN bus latency is too much for ignition control or tach trigger where you need to have sub millisecond accuracy (actually in the micro-seconds in some cases). But the latency is not an issue for EGO which reacts in the order of many milliseconds (if not tens of ms or more) which is much slower than the bus speed. If I remember correctly, the sensor by itself can't react faster than about 10ms.

There are already some IOx owners who do use this feature. And they report a much cleaner and accurate signal since the data doesn't have to go through a digital to analog back to digital sequence with all the potential noise and errors at each step.

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Re: Innovative direct serial datalogging

Postby kritip » Sat Jun 04, 2011 5:59 am

Thank you Jean, that certainly looks an interesting product and idea...not something i've paid any attention to before. As I only want to do the AFR digitally and won't make use of anything else, I think I'll skip it due t the cost and complexity involved (not saying it's overpriced, just im broke lol).

Certainly something I may look into in the future though :)
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Re: Innovative direct serial datalogging

Postby Perkele » Mon Jun 06, 2011 4:31 am

This sound really good that you could connect your LC1 digitally to MS, but what is the minimum hardware required to mate LC1 and MS2Extra with serial?
I don't have or need any bigger expander boards as I have done all necessary things separately to the V3.0 board.
I would just like to add this one feature to the already fantastic MS, but am I out of luck?

Thank you.
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Re: Innovative direct serial datalogging

Postby racingmini_mtl » Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:00 am

Perkele wrote:This sound really good that you could connect your LC1 digitally to MS, but what is the minimum hardware required to mate LC1 and MS2Extra with serial?
I don't have or need any bigger expander boards as I have done all necessary things separately to the V3.0 board.
I would just like to add this one feature to the already fantastic MS, but am I out of luck?

Thank you.

Until someone does something else, this requires the I/O Extender so you need an additional box. I agree that this is not the ideal solution if it's the only feature you need.

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Re: Innovative direct serial datalogging

Postby ilovestuffforreal » Sat May 25, 2013 10:17 pm

Until someone does something else, this requires the I/O Extender so you need an additional box. I agree that this is not the ideal solution if it's the only feature you need.

Jean


Has anyone done anything else? :mrgreen:
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Re: Innovative direct serial datalogging

Postby racingmini_mtl » Sat May 25, 2013 10:43 pm

ilovestuffforreal wrote:
Until someone does something else, this requires the I/O Extender so you need an additional box. I agree that this is not the ideal solution if it's the only feature you need.

Jean


Has anyone done anything else? :mrgreen:

Well, I've done a smaller version: viewtopic.php?f=67&t=44280

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