1999 Saturn SC2 Ignition Install
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1999 Saturn SC2 Ignition Install
OK is this information correct? I want to verify before I actually do the final install:
The info for GM DIS is confusing and scattered all over so this is what I know so far....
Hardware setup:
-Megasquirt II with optic isolator ignition input selected and high current ignition port setup with 1000k ohm 5 volt pull up circuit to protect the CPU.
-Saturn OB I GM DIS module.
Software settings:
-Megasquirt-II.ini:
Max Dwell limit reset to 25.00
-Megatune:
Ignition Input Capture: Rising Edge
Cranking Trigger: Trigger Rise
Coil Charging Scheme: Standard Coil Charge
Spark Output: Going High (Inverted)
Max Spark Duration: 25.0
Max Dwell Duration: 25.0
Now should the spark output be "Going high" since I installed the high current coil driver in my hardware setup? Most setups I see connect the CPU port directly to the ignition module.
Ok just trying to keep things straight before I finally install this!
kudos,
A.J.
The info for GM DIS is confusing and scattered all over so this is what I know so far....
Hardware setup:
-Megasquirt II with optic isolator ignition input selected and high current ignition port setup with 1000k ohm 5 volt pull up circuit to protect the CPU.
-Saturn OB I GM DIS module.
Software settings:
-Megasquirt-II.ini:
Max Dwell limit reset to 25.00
-Megatune:
Ignition Input Capture: Rising Edge
Cranking Trigger: Trigger Rise
Coil Charging Scheme: Standard Coil Charge
Spark Output: Going High (Inverted)
Max Spark Duration: 25.0
Max Dwell Duration: 25.0
Now should the spark output be "Going high" since I installed the high current coil driver in my hardware setup? Most setups I see connect the CPU port directly to the ignition module.
Ok just trying to keep things straight before I finally install this!
kudos,
A.J.
1999 Saturn SC2 1.9L DOHC 4 cyl NA
MS II Blue Processor w/ 2.686t5 Beta Code
V3 PCB
MegaTune 2.25
Innovate LC1 WB O2 Sensor
OBD I Saturn Wasted Spark DIS
w/ Cooling Fan and IAC
MS II Blue Processor w/ 2.686t5 Beta Code
V3 PCB
MegaTune 2.25
Innovate LC1 WB O2 Sensor
OBD I Saturn Wasted Spark DIS
w/ Cooling Fan and IAC
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Re: 1999 Saturn SC2 Ignition Install
I pretty sure you just have to jumper the board for Hall sensor use ... you dont need a pull up circut....bluetrepidation wrote: high current ignition port setup with 1000k ohm 5 volt pull up circuit to protect the CPU.
Well i dont..
93 SC2
I didnt have to swap ign modules...
Just to make sure your fully aware you have to wire the VR(crank sensor) to the ICM. and so on... but yea... anywho ...
I didnt think about changing the max dwell to 25 in the .ini file... hmm maybe that would get rid of my surge....
MS-II Blue V3 PCB
MT 2.25 Final Release w/ MS2/Extra 2.0.1 Firmware
In a 1.9L 93 Saturn SC2 w/ GM DIS.....
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/741154
MT 2.25 Final Release w/ MS2/Extra 2.0.1 Firmware
In a 1.9L 93 Saturn SC2 w/ GM DIS.....
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/741154
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OH really!? Interesting. So you had to wire your hall sensor directly to your ignition control module? OK now I'm extra confused. Let me clarify by asking you if your ignition control module looks like this?
http://www.electronicdisposition.com/OBISaturnGMDIS.JPG
A.J.
http://www.electronicdisposition.com/OBISaturnGMDIS.JPG
A.J.
1999 Saturn SC2 1.9L DOHC 4 cyl NA
MS II Blue Processor w/ 2.686t5 Beta Code
V3 PCB
MegaTune 2.25
Innovate LC1 WB O2 Sensor
OBD I Saturn Wasted Spark DIS
w/ Cooling Fan and IAC
MS II Blue Processor w/ 2.686t5 Beta Code
V3 PCB
MegaTune 2.25
Innovate LC1 WB O2 Sensor
OBD I Saturn Wasted Spark DIS
w/ Cooling Fan and IAC
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yea, I have that unit, a 91-95 ICM(ignition control module)
Sorry i wasnt trying to confuse you
the ICM that Saturns use from 91-95 act just like a Hall sensor... So there is no need to wire a Hall sensor in ...
I just ment you set up the MS pcb board like you would for a hall/optical sensor.
On my v3 PCB the builder put both circuts on ... and I just selected the hall curcut with Jumpers...
Im not TOO shure about the 99's check but from 96-98 i believe that they re routed the VR sensor input to the ECU instead of the ICM...
Hence why you have to use the 91-95 ICM and Wire the VR sensor to it... and a couple other wires to the MS...
I dont know if you saw this thread but it may be helpful for you ... IM running a v3 MS2 so i just used this to get a Base to jump off of...
http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?t=7142&highlight=dis
And this is one I started after getting Fuel and Spark running on my 93 SC2 ...
http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?t=15 ... aturn++dis
but im sure you already read this page...
http://www.megasquirt.info/ms2/GM_DIS.htm
Im not sure if you check another sight out that MOST LIKELY has Alot of good info and people that could help you further... check here at TSN
http://www.turbosaturns.net/
Sorry i wasnt trying to confuse you
the ICM that Saturns use from 91-95 act just like a Hall sensor... So there is no need to wire a Hall sensor in ...
I just ment you set up the MS pcb board like you would for a hall/optical sensor.
On my v3 PCB the builder put both circuts on ... and I just selected the hall curcut with Jumpers...
Im not TOO shure about the 99's check but from 96-98 i believe that they re routed the VR sensor input to the ECU instead of the ICM...
Hence why you have to use the 91-95 ICM and Wire the VR sensor to it... and a couple other wires to the MS...
I dont know if you saw this thread but it may be helpful for you ... IM running a v3 MS2 so i just used this to get a Base to jump off of...
http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?t=7142&highlight=dis
And this is one I started after getting Fuel and Spark running on my 93 SC2 ...
http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?t=15 ... aturn++dis
but im sure you already read this page...
http://www.megasquirt.info/ms2/GM_DIS.htm
Im not sure if you check another sight out that MOST LIKELY has Alot of good info and people that could help you further... check here at TSN
http://www.turbosaturns.net/
MS-II Blue V3 PCB
MT 2.25 Final Release w/ MS2/Extra 2.0.1 Firmware
In a 1.9L 93 Saturn SC2 w/ GM DIS.....
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/741154
MT 2.25 Final Release w/ MS2/Extra 2.0.1 Firmware
In a 1.9L 93 Saturn SC2 w/ GM DIS.....
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/741154
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- Experienced MS/Extra'er
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- Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2005 9:24 pm
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Whew ok. Yeah any 96 and newer Saturn has the hall sensor wired directly to the ECU. I thought for a second you got a OB II ignition control module to work! Now I am wired for the hall setup. Where I differ is I do not have JS10 jumpered to IGN. I hooked up the high current coil driver circuit with a 5 volt pull up resistor so I could protect my processor port somewhat. So you think I don't need the pull up resistor? Otherwise thanks for the link on using an LED for the bypass circuit. This is what I was planning on figuring out next.
A.J.
A.J.
1999 Saturn SC2 1.9L DOHC 4 cyl NA
MS II Blue Processor w/ 2.686t5 Beta Code
V3 PCB
MegaTune 2.25
Innovate LC1 WB O2 Sensor
OBD I Saturn Wasted Spark DIS
w/ Cooling Fan and IAC
MS II Blue Processor w/ 2.686t5 Beta Code
V3 PCB
MegaTune 2.25
Innovate LC1 WB O2 Sensor
OBD I Saturn Wasted Spark DIS
w/ Cooling Fan and IAC
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- Experienced MS/Extra'er
- Posts: 267
- Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2005 9:24 pm
- Location: Youngstown Ohio
I know the processor port has built in pull up but I'm using the high current coil driver circuit on the V3 board to drive my ICM. This doesn't have any kind of pull up does it? Anyway it's added but I'm still not sure when kind of output setting I need to use. To invert or not to invert?tebriel wrote:are you using the MS2? The ms2 has it built it, so you wouldn't need to wire that in. I don't think it would hurt to have it however.
A.J.
1999 Saturn SC2 1.9L DOHC 4 cyl NA
MS II Blue Processor w/ 2.686t5 Beta Code
V3 PCB
MegaTune 2.25
Innovate LC1 WB O2 Sensor
OBD I Saturn Wasted Spark DIS
w/ Cooling Fan and IAC
MS II Blue Processor w/ 2.686t5 Beta Code
V3 PCB
MegaTune 2.25
Innovate LC1 WB O2 Sensor
OBD I Saturn Wasted Spark DIS
w/ Cooling Fan and IAC
is there any reason why you're choosing to drive the coil?
wait, are you driving the coils or are you driving the ICM? You don't need a pull up when you are controlling the ICM. You just hook your tach signal from the ICM to the MS, then on MS2 put pin 36 to the EST in wire on the ICM. Then you just need to worry about the bypass signal to the ICM.
you read turbosaturns.net or plastikracing.net? they both have posts about doing this
-teb
wait, are you driving the coils or are you driving the ICM? You don't need a pull up when you are controlling the ICM. You just hook your tach signal from the ICM to the MS, then on MS2 put pin 36 to the EST in wire on the ICM. Then you just need to worry about the bypass signal to the ICM.
you read turbosaturns.net or plastikracing.net? they both have posts about doing this
-teb
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OK well the above setup officially works! I don't know if I needed the pull up resistor but it is in there and my processor port is protected so I'm happy. I also got a spare output setup for my cooling fan and my bypass wire on my ICM setup. All works. Now the car did surge but shutting off EGO correction fixed that. The cooling fan kicking on causes a bit of load but hitting the brake lights doesn't seem to affect anything. So far so good.
1999 Saturn SC2 1.9L DOHC 4 cyl NA
MS II Blue Processor w/ 2.686t5 Beta Code
V3 PCB
MegaTune 2.25
Innovate LC1 WB O2 Sensor
OBD I Saturn Wasted Spark DIS
w/ Cooling Fan and IAC
MS II Blue Processor w/ 2.686t5 Beta Code
V3 PCB
MegaTune 2.25
Innovate LC1 WB O2 Sensor
OBD I Saturn Wasted Spark DIS
w/ Cooling Fan and IAC
Setting the dwell to 25ms caused me nothing but problems. I am having good luck with it at .5-1.0 ms. ANythin over that and I get surging up top.
I have also noticed that the stock ICM pulls timing between 6750 and 7200. I guess it was built into the ICM so that the timeing would be pulled as the fuel cut kicked in.
Set the max spark duration from 1.5 to 2.0 ms, the shorter the duration, the hotter the sprak flame. 1.5 seem so be a good number.
I'm gonna try another ICM off another car and see if that helps out any, but as of right now, the 95 sucks between that spot mentioned earlier.
I have also noticed that the stock ICM pulls timing between 6750 and 7200. I guess it was built into the ICM so that the timeing would be pulled as the fuel cut kicked in.
Set the max spark duration from 1.5 to 2.0 ms, the shorter the duration, the hotter the sprak flame. 1.5 seem so be a good number.
I'm gonna try another ICM off another car and see if that helps out any, but as of right now, the 95 sucks between that spot mentioned earlier.
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6750 and 7200 huh? Well that stinks. I've been running 25ms dwell for some times and I'm not having any surging issues. But I don't have a turbo either. I guess you got your engine rebuilt? Spark duration? Doesn't the ICM handle that? Or does this setting still have some kind of effect?
A.J.
A.J.
S.Bretz wrote:Setting the dwell to 25ms caused me nothing but problems. I am having good luck with it at .5-1.0 ms. ANythin over that and I get surging up top.
I have also noticed that the stock ICM pulls timing between 6750 and 7200. I guess it was built into the ICM so that the timeing would be pulled as the fuel cut kicked in.
Set the max spark duration from 1.5 to 2.0 ms, the shorter the duration, the hotter the sprak flame. 1.5 seem so be a good number.
I'm gonna try another ICM off another car and see if that helps out any, but as of right now, the 95 sucks between that spot mentioned earlier.
1999 Saturn SC2 1.9L DOHC 4 cyl NA
MS II Blue Processor w/ 2.686t5 Beta Code
V3 PCB
MegaTune 2.25
Innovate LC1 WB O2 Sensor
OBD I Saturn Wasted Spark DIS
w/ Cooling Fan and IAC
MS II Blue Processor w/ 2.686t5 Beta Code
V3 PCB
MegaTune 2.25
Innovate LC1 WB O2 Sensor
OBD I Saturn Wasted Spark DIS
w/ Cooling Fan and IAC
Reporting back:
After the last post, I finally got around to messing with it. I was messing with the dwell a bid to see if the ICM would do its own dwell and not need the MS signal...well it DOES need a siganl...so I had turn the dwell up from .5 to 1, then installed another ICM from a 94. As soon as I cranked it up, it misfired like crazy. It stalled a few times, and then while it was running I turned the dwell up to 2.5ms....BIG improvemet. I left and noticed at low rpm and full throttle, it was still missing. SO I bumped it up to 25ms and it rean great the rest of the way home.
Only problem is that I still have a problem with 67ishh hundred to 7200.
I'm gonna pull a data log and makes sure its good on fuel and stuff. I noticed with the current ICM, it idled leaner, and leaned out easierwhile cruising, so I figure I might need to mess with the fuel tables a bit and take/add a little timing here and there.
After the last post, I finally got around to messing with it. I was messing with the dwell a bid to see if the ICM would do its own dwell and not need the MS signal...well it DOES need a siganl...so I had turn the dwell up from .5 to 1, then installed another ICM from a 94. As soon as I cranked it up, it misfired like crazy. It stalled a few times, and then while it was running I turned the dwell up to 2.5ms....BIG improvemet. I left and noticed at low rpm and full throttle, it was still missing. SO I bumped it up to 25ms and it rean great the rest of the way home.
Only problem is that I still have a problem with 67ishh hundred to 7200.
I'm gonna pull a data log and makes sure its good on fuel and stuff. I noticed with the current ICM, it idled leaner, and leaned out easierwhile cruising, so I figure I might need to mess with the fuel tables a bit and take/add a little timing here and there.
hey sam could you send me or upload your msq file? I tried getting the ms2 to run on the turbo car a couple days ago but it ran so lean it didn't even register on the wideband. we tried richening it up, but it didn't make a difference. I must've missed a setting somewhere but i'm not sure what.
-teb
-teb
Yeah, give me a few minutes. I have to go out to the car and grab the laptop...an then let it load. I'll get the most resent. It is with the 96lb/hr injectors and the new intake manifold and the bullforg cams, so I don't know how it will work for you...especially at idle. I had to made a pretty aggressive timing advance wall to keep it from idleing...and I Have bee idleing it at about 1300-1400. Under that the injectors can't spray and less fuel and the it chokes out....i'llbe back.
ok...here is a .ini file witch I modded to accept up to 25.5 ms of dwell...copy it over the .ini that you named "megasquirt-II.ini" or something like that. Its in the "mtCfg" folder.
Next is the .msg file.
Keep in mind I don't use the IAC, so you will have to mess with those numbers if you want that.
Next is the .msg file.
Keep in mind I don't use the IAC, so you will have to mess with those numbers if you want that.
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- Experienced MS/Extra'er
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Seems like something was up with that other ICM. BTW does anyone have a stock Saturn ignition timing map that I can look at?
Keep us posted,
A.J.
Keep us posted,
A.J.
1999 Saturn SC2 1.9L DOHC 4 cyl NA
MS II Blue Processor w/ 2.686t5 Beta Code
V3 PCB
MegaTune 2.25
Innovate LC1 WB O2 Sensor
OBD I Saturn Wasted Spark DIS
w/ Cooling Fan and IAC
MS II Blue Processor w/ 2.686t5 Beta Code
V3 PCB
MegaTune 2.25
Innovate LC1 WB O2 Sensor
OBD I Saturn Wasted Spark DIS
w/ Cooling Fan and IAC
-
- Experienced MS/Extra'er
- Posts: 267
- Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2005 9:24 pm
- Location: Youngstown Ohio