MS2/Extra Alpha 3.0.3 20090627 (was 20090623)

This is a forum for discussing the development and testing of alpha MS2/Extra code. Documentation
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MS2/Extra Alpha 3.0.3 20090627 (was 20090623)

Postby racingmini_mtl » Tue Jun 23, 2009 6:27 pm

There is a new release of the MS2/Extra Alpha 3.0.3 available. This new version has the following changes:

- Ken's change for staging which prevents unwanted activation when a parameter like TPS becomes negative.

- Addition of a hybrid mode for the sequential siamese mode. This mode allows the injection to go from the full sequential dual pulses to a single pulse for both cylinders. This allows the optimal use of the injection window by removing the closing and opening of the second pulse therefore using the entire open valve duration (of both cylinders) for fuel injection. There is an activation RPM where the single pulse will start when RPM is going up and an RPM hysteresis used when the RPM goes below (activation RPM-hysteresis RPM) when going down. Changing these RPM values require a power cycle to take effect.

Also, since there is a need to change both the fueling and the injection timing when going to the single pulse mode, there is now a third injection timing value and timing table. The fueling for the single pulse mode is done by using the Fuel VE Table 3 in the Extended menu. This means that this table can no longer be used to switch table in the sequential siamese mode (but it's still available in the other sequential/semi-sequential modes).

To disable this hybrid mode and run purely in dual pulse mode, the activation RPM is set to a value higher than the engine's usable range (for example 15000RPM).

EDIT: Due to the limited number of posts here and the short time since the last version I have updated this post.

The code has been updated to include Ken's fix for the rotary trailing code.
Also, a bug was fixed for the priming pulse. The priming pulse was only fired for injector channels 1 and 2.
And staging was fixed. It was broken for sequential/semi-sequential when another fix was included.

EDIT2: VE trim tables now centered around 100% instead of 0%, i.e., 100% means no trim. The values can be from 87.6% to 112.4% (+-12.4%).

The new release is available here:
http://www.msextra.com/ms2extra/files/alpha/ms2extra_alpha20090627.zip

This version is in sync with the release 2.1.0 from the same date.

Jean
Last edited by racingmini_mtl on Sat Jun 27, 2009 8:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: MS2/Extra Alpha 3.0.3 20090623

Postby JaccoF » Thu Jun 25, 2009 3:20 am

Upgrade from alpha 20090507 yesterday, cold start this morning starts much faster warm starts are also a bit faster.
No problems until now.
Jacco

68 Mustang 289 V8 megasquirt 3 MPI BiFuel fullseq. V8 LPG & Petrol Injection & Spark
91 Ford Sierra 1.6 OHC MS2

Your European Megasquirt source
http://www.jfetech.nl
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Re: MS2/Extra Alpha 3.0.3 20090623

Postby PaulS » Sat Jun 27, 2009 6:04 am

Set this up on my A Series Mini today.

Within half an hour managed to get a good working setup with AFRs close on the inner and outer cylinders. Still some more work to do, but nothing that can't be sorted.

Running the hybrid mode in Sequential Siamese. Excellent piece of work.

Thanks Jean.
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Re: MS2/Extra Alpha 3.0.3 20090627 (was 20090623)

Postby racingmini_mtl » Sat Jun 27, 2009 4:35 pm

See the first post for an update.
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Re: MS2/Extra Alpha 3.0.3 20090627 (was 20090623)

Postby dontz125 » Sat Jun 27, 2009 6:48 pm

I've been going through setting up my .msq, learning what does what and why. Unless I'm missing something, a 4-injector sequential set-up should have 4 trim tables, yet I only have 2. Is this glitch in the TS software, the firmware, or in my understanding / configuration?
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Re: MS2/Extra Alpha 3.0.3 20090627 (was 20090623)

Postby racingmini_mtl » Sat Jun 27, 2009 7:44 pm

You're using siamese sequential. This is different from the normal sequential injection. Also, you haven't specified that you're using additional injector drivers so only the 2 standard drivers are used. With only 2 drivers there are only 2 trim tables. If you specify the additional drivers you'll get the other 4 trim tables (but you need to do the hardware modifications). But since you're using siamese sequential, the 2 additional drivers will only be used if you used staged injection.

If you're using the latest thing you talked about (2 throttle bodies feeding 4 ports with 4 injectors) then you must chose the sequential/semi-sequential mode. It is no longer considered a siamese port engine.

Jean
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Re: MS2/Extra Alpha 3.0.3 20090627 (was 20090623)

Postby dontz125 » Sat Jun 27, 2009 7:56 pm

I am going 4-port; not sure why the Sequential Siamese was set - must have bumped that by accident. Thank you for the catch on the additional drivers; the first time I read your website I thought it said that the 'additional drivers' tab was only necessary if the hardware settings were different from the first two. I've just re-read it, and that ain't what it says! 'Additional Drivers' has now been selected and settings set.

I have 4 trim tables! ("And there was much rejoicing" - ob Monty Python)
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Re: MS2/Extra Alpha 3.0.3 20090627 (was 20090623)

Postby racingmini_mtl » Sat Jun 27, 2009 8:15 pm

You just made me remember something I forgot to mention that was changed. The VE trim tables are now from 87.6% to 112.4% (100% +-12.4%). The "neutral" value is 100% meaning that when you put 100% there is no change from what the main VE table gives.

So you can still trim VE by +- 12.4% but it is more consistent with the rest of the parameters (such as all the gamma values) where 100% always means no change. This is also to be consistent with what MS3 will do in its own trim tables.

Jean
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Re: MS2/Extra Alpha 3.0.3 20090627 (was 20090623)

Postby dontz125 » Sat Jun 27, 2009 8:18 pm

So the trim tables are now multiplied, not added?

Which means the current all-zero (default) trim tables would mean no flow?! :shock:
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Re: MS2/Extra Alpha 3.0.3 20090627 (was 20090623)

Postby racingmini_mtl » Sat Jun 27, 2009 8:35 pm

If you're using a previous version, 0 means nothing is added or subtracted. But it is multiplied. It's just that the previous version was doing 1+trim times VE and now it's just trim times VE.

But in both cases the default is that there is no trim. So just start from the default tables and increase or decrease by the needed percentage.

Jean
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Re: MS2/Extra Alpha 3.0.3 20090627 (was 20090623)

Postby ashford » Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:41 pm

just upgraded from 20090611 wrote a new msq by hand and still had the same problem as in this post http://www.msextra.com/viewtopic.php?f=91&t=31530&start=0#p211102

I leaned it out till the egts came up to 1500 and it still ran horibly. then i changed injector end timing to different sport in 30 degree intervals without much improvement. then i changed timing mode form end of injection to start of injection and everything cleared up(had to richen things up again).
im thinking that end of injection timing is broken or the prediction algorithm is inadaquate for use on a 2.2/2.5 dizzy. but oh well it seem to work good in start of injection mode.

the end result im looking for in injection timing is for all fuel to be done squirting before the intake valve closes and having the next pulse come when or after it closes.
Does the setting injection start degrees 140 btdc sound about right or should i up that number considering transport delay?
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Re: MS2/Extra Alpha 3.0.3 20090627 (was 20090623)

Postby racingmini_mtl » Mon Jun 29, 2009 8:14 pm

You're right. There seems to be something weird happening with the injection timing in end-of-pulse. It seems to be jumping one tooth once in a while. With a 36-1, it's barely noticeable but with the small number of teeth on the 2.2/2.5 it makes a huge difference.

I'll have a look at the code and see what's happening.

Jean
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Re: MS2/Extra Alpha 3.0.3 20090627 (was 20090623)

Postby racingmini_mtl » Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:31 pm

There seems to be a problem with the wheel decoder for the 2.2/2.5 wheel and it's not only in the alpha code but also in the 2.1.0 code. If I look at the ignition, the dwell on spark A will vary from the correct value to something 2 to 3 times larger. As far as I can tell, the problem is not the dwell per se but rather the timing (from the decoder) that is used to start the dwell. That is why it also affects injection timing in the alpha code.

I'll look at the code but may have to get James involved since he's the wheel decoder guru.

Jean
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Re: MS2/Extra Alpha 3.0.3 20090627 (was 20090623)

Postby Keithg » Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:23 am

racingmini_mtl wrote:There seems to be a problem with the wheel decoder for the 2.2/2.5 wheel and it's not only in the alpha code but also in the 2.1.0 code. If I look at the ignition, the dwell on spark A will vary from the correct value to something 2 to 3 times larger. As far as I can tell, the problem is not the dwell per se but rather the timing (from the decoder) that is used to start the dwell. That is why it also affects injection timing in the alpha code.

I'll look at the code but may have to get James involved since he's the wheel decoder guru.

Jean


When did this start, Jean? I am still running the 20090507 version of the code. I have not noticed it, but am running a 36-1 wheel.

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Re: MS2/Extra Alpha 3.0.3 20090627 (was 20090623)

Postby racingmini_mtl » Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:03 am

Actually, the problem is only on the 2.2/2.5 wheel. What I thought was something similar with 36-1 was actually something different. To see something, I was using pulse widths of about 25ms at high duty cycle and, with a 36-1 pattern, I was seeing that the end-of pulse timing was sometimes moving from the correct timing to something like half a tooth away. But this seems to be due to the tach signal which was changing and therefore the conversion from the pulse width to a starting angle did not match exactly the actual signal speed.

But that's nothing to worry about (except the 2.2/2.5 decoder issue) because that only happens with very high duty cycle and the error is proportional to the pulse width and RPM change. And with high duty cycle, injection timing becomes much less important since the pulse width covers most of the cycle anyway. What is important is that the pulse width is correct even if timing is less accurate. And on the stim, the RPM can change instantly by 256 RPM which is enormous at the low RPM I was using so the error is amplified.

But as I said, the 2.2/2.5 wheel has a real issue which needs to be corrected because it does affect both ignition and injection timing.

Jean
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Re: MS2/Extra Alpha 3.0.3 20090627 (was 20090623)

Postby jeremydde » Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:47 pm

Can I use this code to run full sequential on my setup with just the cam trigger (no crank trigger):

1.2L 3 Cyl
VR trigger in distributor with 3 teeth.
3 injectors (currently batch on channel 1).
1 coil directly fired

Jeremy
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Re: MS2/Extra Alpha 3.0.3 20090627 (was 20090623)

Postby racingmini_mtl » Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:57 pm

No. Sequential injection doesn't work with a distributor (with basic trigger or trigger return) or EDIS. There's no information about where the cycle begins. You would need a missing tooth cam wheel or a dual wheel setup.

Jean
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Re: MS2/Extra Alpha 3.0.3 20090627 (was 20090623)

Postby jeremydde » Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:01 pm

racingmini_mtl wrote:No. Sequential injection doesn't work with a distributor (with basic trigger or trigger return) or EDIS. There's no information about where the cycle begins. You would need a missing tooth cam wheel or a dual wheel setup.

Jean


I have a 36-1 wheel that I can install onto the crank. Can I use that along with the 1 tooth dizzy signal as well? Or can I use both distributor signals at once like the factory computer did. It has a 1-tooth and a 3 tooth wheel in it.
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Re: MS2/Extra Alpha 3.0.3 20090627 (was 20090623)

Postby racingmini_mtl » Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:06 pm

Yes. A 36-1 crank wheel with a one tooth cam signal will work perfectly. And with the the 4-channel driver board you just bought, you'll be able to run COPs in addition to sequential injection if you want (provided you get the IGBTs and the COPs, of course). Or you can keep using the distributor with one coil.

Jean
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Re: MS2/Extra Alpha 3.0.3 20090627 (was 20090623)

Postby cygnus x-1 » Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:45 pm

I just thought I would report that this version works on my 2.0L 4-cyl with standard EDIS ignition. (I know, how boring.) I'll be switching to sequential and COP eventually but I've been running the B&G code forever and wanted to get Extra working first. I haven't had a chance to do much more than idle in the driveway but so far everything appears to be in order. Tomorrow I'll drive it to work and see how it goes.

C|
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