2JZ VVTi

Testing and development of Megasquirt 3

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Re: 2JZ VVTi

Postby porelmundo » Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:54 am

Working strong on my engine, I had wrong polarity just on the cam, change it and everything looks as expected, some twiks to PID and I will runnit on the Dyno. Gross, if is possible, post your settings my neutral hold position looks better at 45 than 50 but I just start it now need to Play some more.
Thank you James for your big help, I will keep informing.
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Re: 2JZ VVTi

Postby gross polluter » Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:14 pm

Very interesting. Mine seems to only hold at 75%, regardless of what frequency I set the valve to. One thing I should point out about my setup is that I have a VVTi head on a USDM block, so there was never a provision in the block casting for the large check valve banjo fitting used for the VVTi oil feed. Instead, there's only enough meat on the block for the 1/8NPT oil pressure switch, which is now an AN-4 feed to the VVTI valve. I don't know if the check valve in the stock banjo fitting in the block would affect operation at all, but I do not have that on my setup.

With my current configuration I've found that turning hold duty off and let the PID do its thing seems to work best. I know it's not correct per the manual, but there's quite a few things different about my setup that could affect the intended operation of the VVTi system. Or my valve may not be functioning correctly.
88 RX-7 TII - MS2 Extra 1.0.2
68 Mustang 351C - MS3X
88 Volvo 245 - 2JZGTE VVTi powered, MS3X + MSGPIO Mshift controlled
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Re: 2JZ VVTi

Postby jsmcortina » Sat Oct 15, 2011 4:16 am

As VVT is still a fairly new feature, don't be too alarmed if you need to do things a little differently from the manual. If you have a configuration that is working for you that is more important. Once you have it working exactly as it should, please share the settings and we can add it to the manual.

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Re: 2JZ VVTi

Postby gross polluter » Sat Oct 15, 2011 9:35 am

Whoops, I should have been more specific. When I said "per the manual" I was referring to the Toyota service manual on how the VVTi system works in a stock environment. Basically, I don't think my engine configuration is the best for making comparisons due to the very modified oiling system on the VVTi.
88 RX-7 TII - MS2 Extra 1.0.2
68 Mustang 351C - MS3X
88 Volvo 245 - 2JZGTE VVTi powered, MS3X + MSGPIO Mshift controlled
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Re: 2JZ VVTi

Postby porelmundo » Sat Oct 15, 2011 10:41 am

My engine is from JDM Aristo, I need to spend more time and test drive it to post some standard settings.
Gross what frequency work best for you?
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Re: 2JZ VVTi

Postby gross polluter » Sun Oct 16, 2011 5:14 pm

Here's what has been working best for me. Higher frequencies result in too much overshoot and timing oscillations on my setup. These settings have been working flawless for me. No overshoot, timing reaches target immediately, overall the best working settings for my engine.

Image
88 RX-7 TII - MS2 Extra 1.0.2
68 Mustang 351C - MS3X
88 Volvo 245 - 2JZGTE VVTi powered, MS3X + MSGPIO Mshift controlled
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Re: 2JZ VVTi

Postby TurboJ » Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:25 pm

Just thought id add a physical picture of the crank trigger wheel of this engine as its not really "missing" teeth but a long tooth. Which should behave like a missing tooth in reverse.
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Re: 2JZ VVTi

Postby TurboJ » Fri Nov 18, 2011 6:20 am

As I said earlier I would post a log of this engine to help out.

Below is a scope log of cranking speed.
It is clear that the centre of the crank signal is not on the 0V line therefore a trigger offset of ~0.5V should be applied.Triggering off the rising edge is a must as a falling edge trigger would change the missing tooth length as the engine accelerates.
It is also clear that the centre of the cam signal is not on the 0V line either therefore a trigger offset of ~0.25V should be applied. Triggering off the falling edge is imposable as the tipping point could be up to 240degrees long! Only triggering off the rising edge will produce a consistence cam signal.

Hope this helps everyone.
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Re: 2JZ VVTi

Postby muythaibxr » Fri Nov 18, 2011 8:19 am

TurboJ wrote:As I said earlier I would post a log of this engine to help out.

Below is a scope log of cranking speed.
It is clear that the centre of the crank signal is not on the 0V line therefore a trigger offset of ~0.5V should be applied.Triggering off the rising edge is a must as a falling edge trigger would change the missing tooth length as the engine accelerates.
It is also clear that the centre of the cam signal is not on the 0V line either therefore a trigger offset of ~0.25V should be applied. Triggering off the falling edge is imposable as the tipping point could be up to 240degrees long! Only triggering off the rising edge will produce a consistence cam signal.


Typically if the high-low transition looks like it does in your scope shots, you have the VR polarity backwards.

Ken
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Re: 2JZ VVTi

Postby gross polluter » Fri Nov 18, 2011 9:39 pm

TurboJ wrote:Hope this helps everyone.



As Ken mentioned above, your polarity is backwards in that log. Your trigger log looks identical to mine when my cam sensor polarity was wrong.

This has been figured out and working flawlessly for the better part of a month now.
88 RX-7 TII - MS2 Extra 1.0.2
68 Mustang 351C - MS3X
88 Volvo 245 - 2JZGTE VVTi powered, MS3X + MSGPIO Mshift controlled
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Re: 2JZ VVTi

Postby TurboJ » Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:57 am

Sorry maybe I should have mentioned this in my first post:

This 2JZ engine is also found in a Lotus with an EFi ECU as an OEM.
This is the trigger signal off the Lotus version. This engine is from Toyota but supplied with an EFi ECU which uses the crank and cam as above. They also make a DbW with supercharger version.
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Re: 2JZ VVTi

Postby jsmcortina » Sun Nov 20, 2011 11:56 am

So, are you trying to get this running or just posting stuff ?

James
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Re: 2JZ VVTi

Postby gross polluter » Sun Nov 20, 2011 3:21 pm

I think he's confusing his 2ZZ engine for a 2JZ.
88 RX-7 TII - MS2 Extra 1.0.2
68 Mustang 351C - MS3X
88 Volvo 245 - 2JZGTE VVTi powered, MS3X + MSGPIO Mshift controlled
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Re: 2JZ VVTi

Postby TurboJ » Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:45 am

gross polluter wrote:I think he's confusing his 2ZZ engine for a 2JZ.


Lol I'm so stupid and I even labelled my first sync log 2ZZ aswell. My mistake please edit/move to a new thread if need be. I reversed the crank and cam polarity and it still sits off the zero as I suspected it would. It's a box standard factory engine with no changes. Please find the reversed log below. I'm not running this engine on MSX because of the DbW but might fit throttle bodies with cable throttle in the future, so for now just going to help aid the flow of information while I can in case others try to use this engine without DbW.
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Re: 2JZ VVTi

Postby Token » Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:53 pm

I am running Alpha17 and the 2011-10-12_00.07.59.msq. My N/A 2jzge VVTi seems to sync, but I do not get even a burble or pop, just cranking and cranking. Should I ditch Alpha17 and flash the controller with the ini in the 2011-10-12_00.07.59.msq?

Also from the factory the VVTi has a + and - from the ECU, with the MS in play I keep the + intact and simply intercept the - with the MS's VVT wire?
Last edited by Token on Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'm an Alpha junkie!!

Old: MSII batch fuel, wasted spark. New: MS3x, sequential fuel, wasted spark, VVTi
Thanks to all who contributed to MSextra and MS3 code and thanks to DIY Tuning!
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Re: 2JZ VVTi

Postby ashford » Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:34 pm

TurboJ wrote:
gross polluter wrote:I think he's confusing his 2ZZ engine for a 2JZ.


Lol I'm so stupid and I even labelled my first sync log 2ZZ aswell. My mistake please edit/move to a new thread if need be. I reversed the crank and cam polarity and it still sits off the zero as I suspected it would. It's a box standard factory engine with no changes. Please find the reversed log below. I'm not running this engine on MSX because of the DbW but might fit throttle bodies with cable throttle in the future, so for now just going to help aid the flow of information while I can in case others try to use this engine without DbW.


you need to change your capture edge too.
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Re: 2JZ VVTi

Postby Token » Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:53 am

Gross polluter and porelmundo, I've been trying to use 2jz vvti, proper injector sizing in required fuel, sequential fuel, wasted spark with Toyota OE ignitor (tested spark, it works) and can't even get a pop or hickup- cranks like it does not sync, though the sync box goes from red to green. I figured even if I got two injector wires mixed up and/or a coil, it would still studder. I'm at a loss here. Attached is a log. Any advice? Need some other kinds of logs?

I'm learning as I go but the log shows lost sync reason 84
I'm an Alpha junkie!!

Old: MSII batch fuel, wasted spark. New: MS3x, sequential fuel, wasted spark, VVTi
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Re: 2JZ VVTi

Postby jsmcortina » Thu Dec 15, 2011 12:35 pm

Are the plugs firing? Is there fuel injected? (plugs wet)

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Re: 2JZ VVTi

Postby pit_celica » Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:03 pm

Did you verify the real ignition timing with a timing light and compare it agaisnt what MS is sending? The cranking PW seems small (about 2.5 ms during cranking). I would try to raise the cranking PW.

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Re: 2JZ VVTi

Postby Token » Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:11 pm

I finally put the timing light on- no spark, though #1 did spark when tested in output test mode.

OE ECU is zero degrees timing on cold start, and slowly advances as warming up to 10 degrees where the idle stays at.

If the MS is syncing, shouldn't it be sparking? I currently have all four pots well over 8 times counter clockwise. Reason 84 is still at the very beginning of cranking, and lost sync count down to 2 from 3 (maybe because I did not crank as long as the last log). Dwell seems to go up to 11ms (assuming this is spark dwell), doesn't seem like an awful lot? The OE ignitor is 'smart', it is supposed to cut off over-voltage and current to the coils, but from what I understand its not supposed to completely cut it off, just clamp past a max value.

I found this sink loss chart, http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms3/syncloss.html but it does not go up to 84.
I'm an Alpha junkie!!

Old: MSII batch fuel, wasted spark. New: MS3x, sequential fuel, wasted spark, VVTi
Thanks to all who contributed to MSextra and MS3 code and thanks to DIY Tuning!
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