Maximum Value for PW and injectortiming?
Moderators: jsmcortina, muythaibxr
-
- Experienced MS/Extra'er
- Posts: 213
- Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:37 am
- Location: The Netherlands
Maximum Value for PW and injectortiming?
I have a problem with the Pw I think.
I have a 410 engine with a KB supercharger with propane injectors with P+H boards.
The idle PW is about 4.7 but when I am going to accelerate it is going up to 28 Sec it is not even at WOT then.
The engine is running really rough then, so I don't want to try it at wot.
The engine had a rough idle before I have tried to use the Idle advance( I hope I have done right? )and to lower the injector small pulsewidths, I dont have the good value for it.
The value for the injectors I get fro Bigas are :minimum impulse 2,8ms , Speedup 4ms,opening time 2ms ,close time 1ms, coil 3 ohms,
How I must use this data? Thanks and greetings,
Erik.
My MSQ and log file are here :
I have a 410 engine with a KB supercharger with propane injectors with P+H boards.
The idle PW is about 4.7 but when I am going to accelerate it is going up to 28 Sec it is not even at WOT then.
The engine is running really rough then, so I don't want to try it at wot.
The engine had a rough idle before I have tried to use the Idle advance( I hope I have done right? )and to lower the injector small pulsewidths, I dont have the good value for it.
The value for the injectors I get fro Bigas are :minimum impulse 2,8ms , Speedup 4ms,opening time 2ms ,close time 1ms, coil 3 ohms,
How I must use this data? Thanks and greetings,
Erik.
My MSQ and log file are here :
-
- Super MS/Extra'er
- Posts: 6828
- Joined: Sun May 15, 2011 11:41 am
- Location: Walnut Creek, Calif. USA
Re: Maximum Value for PW and injectortiming?
I have very little experience with propane (fork-lift trucks only), but would need to have some idea of what the injector flow-rate is to even discuss your problem. Without knowing the flow, in something like Kg/hr or liter/hr, PW is indeterminate. A "410 engine", is that a 410 cubic-inch engine, probably a V-8?
-
- Experienced MS/Extra'er
- Posts: 213
- Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:37 am
- Location: The Netherlands
Re: Maximum Value for PW and injectortiming?
Hello Bil,
It is a 410 Cui and it is a V8
Thanks and greetings,
Erik
It is a 410 Cui and it is a V8
Thanks and greetings,
Erik
-
- Super MS/Extra'er
- Posts: 6828
- Joined: Sun May 15, 2011 11:41 am
- Location: Walnut Creek, Calif. USA
Re: Maximum Value for PW and injectortiming?
Can you find flow-rate for the injectors?
-
- Experienced MS/Extra'er
- Posts: 213
- Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:37 am
- Location: The Netherlands
Re: Maximum Value for PW and injectortiming?
I have tried it but al I get are these value's : :minimum impulse 2,8ms , Speedup 4ms,opening time 2ms ,close time 1ms, coil 3 ohms
Thanks and greetings,
Erik.
Thanks and greetings,
Erik.
-
- Super MS/Extra'er
- Posts: 6828
- Joined: Sun May 15, 2011 11:41 am
- Location: Walnut Creek, Calif. USA
Re: Maximum Value for PW and injectortiming?
Post make and P/N of injectors, maybe someone else knows. (Make is "Bigas"?) If we can't find data, then I think you will have to flow them and measure. Determining "req_fuel" is just a big guess if we don't know injector flow.
-
- Site Admin
- Posts: 39612
- Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 1:34 am
- Location: Birmingham, UK
- Contact:
Re: Maximum Value for PW and injectortiming?
I've not heard of "speedup" in this context before?
The dead time in your MSQ looks wrong though, where did your 2.4ms come from?
From the specs there, opening time = 2ms, closing time = 1ms. So with the same driver your dead time = opening time - closing time = 1.0ms.
James
The dead time in your MSQ looks wrong though, where did your 2.4ms come from?
From the specs there, opening time = 2ms, closing time = 1ms. So with the same driver your dead time = opening time - closing time = 1.0ms.
James
I can repair or upgrade Megasquirts in UK. http://www.jamesmurrayengineering.co.uk
My Success story: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 04&t=34277
MSEXTRA documentation at: http://www.msextra.com/doc/index.html
New users, please read the "Forum Help Page".
My Success story: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 04&t=34277
MSEXTRA documentation at: http://www.msextra.com/doc/index.html
New users, please read the "Forum Help Page".
-
- Experienced MS/Extra'er
- Posts: 213
- Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:37 am
- Location: The Netherlands
Re: Maximum Value for PW and injectortiming?
Hello James,
Thanks for the reply
The 2.4 is just a value I have put in the MS.(that was the value that I get some idle)
I must use 1Sec. for the deadtime at A?
What curve must i use?
Must I change other value's?
![Image](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v140/activate1/ScreenShot001-7.jpg)
Thanks and greetings,
Erik.
Thanks for the reply
The 2.4 is just a value I have put in the MS.(that was the value that I get some idle)
I must use 1Sec. for the deadtime at A?
What curve must i use?
Must I change other value's?
![Image](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v140/activate1/ScreenShot001-7.jpg)
Thanks and greetings,
Erik.
-
- Site Admin
- Posts: 39612
- Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 1:34 am
- Location: Birmingham, UK
- Contact:
Re: Maximum Value for PW and injectortiming?
Yes, from the data you've presented I believe that 1.0ms is the dead time (if anyone thinks differently, please post.)
Dead time curve 1 looks feasible.
Curves 2,3,4 are bogus - where did they come from?
James
Dead time curve 1 looks feasible.
Curves 2,3,4 are bogus - where did they come from?
James
I can repair or upgrade Megasquirts in UK. http://www.jamesmurrayengineering.co.uk
My Success story: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 04&t=34277
MSEXTRA documentation at: http://www.msextra.com/doc/index.html
New users, please read the "Forum Help Page".
My Success story: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 04&t=34277
MSEXTRA documentation at: http://www.msextra.com/doc/index.html
New users, please read the "Forum Help Page".
-
- Experienced MS/Extra'er
- Posts: 213
- Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:37 am
- Location: The Netherlands
Re: Maximum Value for PW and injectortiming?
Thanks James for the quick reply
I really don't know how the other curves came there.
Must I put the 1 sec only by A or also B and further?
Thanks and greetings,
Erik.
I really don't know how the other curves came there.
Must I put the 1 sec only by A or also B and further?
Thanks and greetings,
Erik.
-
- Site Admin
- Posts: 39612
- Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 1:34 am
- Location: Birmingham, UK
- Contact:
Re: Maximum Value for PW and injectortiming?
You have the _option_ to put individual dead times in the case where you have measured each injector. For 99% of users though the single number for all injectors ("same" setting) is sufficient.
James
James
I can repair or upgrade Megasquirts in UK. http://www.jamesmurrayengineering.co.uk
My Success story: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 04&t=34277
MSEXTRA documentation at: http://www.msextra.com/doc/index.html
New users, please read the "Forum Help Page".
My Success story: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 04&t=34277
MSEXTRA documentation at: http://www.msextra.com/doc/index.html
New users, please read the "Forum Help Page".
-
- Experienced MS/Extra'er
- Posts: 213
- Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:37 am
- Location: The Netherlands
Re: Maximum Value for PW and injectortiming?
Thanks.
I will put them al on 1 sec and see if it runs better!/
I hope that my PW gets better now.
Thanks and greetings,
Erik.
I will put them al on 1 sec and see if it runs better!/
I hope that my PW gets better now.
Thanks and greetings,
Erik.
-
- Site Admin
- Posts: 39612
- Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 1:34 am
- Location: Birmingham, UK
- Contact:
Re: Maximum Value for PW and injectortiming?
Your PW will be about 1.4ms less. But the dead time _I_believe_ should be more accurate.Activate wrote:I hope that my PW gets better now.
You will need to add more fuel to the idle areas of your VE table.
James
I can repair or upgrade Megasquirts in UK. http://www.jamesmurrayengineering.co.uk
My Success story: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 04&t=34277
MSEXTRA documentation at: http://www.msextra.com/doc/index.html
New users, please read the "Forum Help Page".
My Success story: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 04&t=34277
MSEXTRA documentation at: http://www.msextra.com/doc/index.html
New users, please read the "Forum Help Page".
-
- Experienced MS/Extra'er
- Posts: 213
- Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:37 am
- Location: The Netherlands
Re: Maximum Value for PW and injectortiming?
Thanks for the answer!
I will try that.
Wich value I must put in the mainboard injectors?
What is the max PW that is safe?
Thanks and greetings,
Erik
I will try that.
Wich value I must put in the mainboard injectors?
What is the max PW that is safe?
Thanks and greetings,
Erik
-
- Site Admin
- Posts: 39612
- Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 1:34 am
- Location: Birmingham, UK
- Contact:
Re: Maximum Value for PW and injectortiming?
What injectors do you have connected to the mainboard injector outputs?
Not sure what you mean by "safe" ?
Ensure the dutycycle does not exceed about 85%
James
Not sure what you mean by "safe" ?
Ensure the dutycycle does not exceed about 85%
James
I can repair or upgrade Megasquirts in UK. http://www.jamesmurrayengineering.co.uk
My Success story: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 04&t=34277
MSEXTRA documentation at: http://www.msextra.com/doc/index.html
New users, please read the "Forum Help Page".
My Success story: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 04&t=34277
MSEXTRA documentation at: http://www.msextra.com/doc/index.html
New users, please read the "Forum Help Page".
-
- Experienced MS/Extra'er
- Posts: 213
- Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:37 am
- Location: The Netherlands
Re: Maximum Value for PW and injectortiming?
I have no injectors connected to the mainbord.
I will look at he dutycycle.
Thanks and greetings,
Erik.
I will look at he dutycycle.
Thanks and greetings,
Erik.
-
- Super MS/Extra'er
- Posts: 6828
- Joined: Sun May 15, 2011 11:41 am
- Location: Walnut Creek, Calif. USA
Re: Maximum Value for PW and injectortiming?
Activate,
You keep saying 1 sec; do you understand that should be 1 milli-second?
Edit: I had never heard of "Bigas", so I looked on-line for background info. I came across your MS thread from early 2011, with many of the same issues being discussed; including the need to flow the injectors since Bigas won't help you. Do it.
You keep saying 1 sec; do you understand that should be 1 milli-second?
Edit: I had never heard of "Bigas", so I looked on-line for background info. I came across your MS thread from early 2011, with many of the same issues being discussed; including the need to flow the injectors since Bigas won't help you. Do it.
-
- Experienced MS/Extra'er
- Posts: 213
- Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:37 am
- Location: The Netherlands
Re: Maximum Value for PW and injectortiming?
Hello Bil,
Yes I am saying 1 Sec, of course it is 1 Msec.....
What will be the best way to test the Injectors?
Thanks and greetings,
Erik.
Yes I am saying 1 Sec, of course it is 1 Msec.....
What will be the best way to test the Injectors?
Thanks and greetings,
Erik.
-
- Site Admin
- Posts: 39612
- Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 1:34 am
- Location: Birmingham, UK
- Contact:
Re: Maximum Value for PW and injectortiming?
(Being pedantic, it is one millisecond, not a megasecond.)
I don't know how you do test gaseous injectors with a gas. Seems you would need far more specialised equipment than when using a liquid.
You _might_ have success with injector test fluid : http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms3/injdeadtime.html
James
I don't know how you do test gaseous injectors with a gas. Seems you would need far more specialised equipment than when using a liquid.
You _might_ have success with injector test fluid : http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms3/injdeadtime.html
James
I can repair or upgrade Megasquirts in UK. http://www.jamesmurrayengineering.co.uk
My Success story: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 04&t=34277
MSEXTRA documentation at: http://www.msextra.com/doc/index.html
New users, please read the "Forum Help Page".
My Success story: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 04&t=34277
MSEXTRA documentation at: http://www.msextra.com/doc/index.html
New users, please read the "Forum Help Page".