09 5.7 Hemi with VVT?

[Cevidicus]

09 5.7 Hemi with VVT?>>

Hello,

I am interrested in using your product to controll my 2009 5.7 Hemi with V V T and variable length runner intake from a truck application. This engine is destined for a 1969 Dodge Coronet. I just breifly read over your article on using the MSIII on the new Hemi. But I did not notice any mention of the system being able to control the variable valve feature or the variable intake. I'm sure I can use an MSD window switch for the intake but..... Can your system be made to use these functions? If so what parts would be required in addition to those listed in the article?

Thank you!
Cevidicus

[Black99rt]

You shouldn't need to buy a window switch, all MS variants have spare outputs that can be controlled with RPM if that is what you are after.

I'll let a dev comment on the VVT system. Can you provide more details on how the system functions and what electrical control it expects?

[Cevidicus]

The oil control valve solonoid is pulse width modulated by the ecu according to RPM, load, oil pressure and other factors in the factory application. It uses 0% to 100% to control oil flow through the cam and phaser.

It is at the fully advanced position on start up or 0% power input and as RPM's increase and power input increases to 100%, the cam is at the fully retarded position. I think that's right...


See a way better explaination here: http://www.lxforums.com/board/f88/insid ... -a-138211/

[jsmcortina]

In principle we can support that, although the VVT position code will need adding for that cam trigger.

James

[Cevidicus]

In principle we can support that, although the VVT position code will need adding for that cam trigger.

James

Im hoping that by the time I am ready to get going all of the details would be sorted out and more clearly understood...

I still have alot of learning to do. But i believe this can be overcome.

Thanks!

[Cevidicus]

Can someone tell me what products are needed for this?

Thanks,
C

[Matt Cramer]

Pretty much what I'd recommend in the article on our site concerning non-VVT Hemis:

http://www.diyautotune.com/tech_article ... w_hemi.htm

*


How to MegaSquirt your new Chrysler Hemi
Using stock sensors and coils
Updated 12/29/2011

Application(s): This article covers the new Mopar Hemi Magnum engines (5.7, 6.1, or 6.4) that Chrysler started producing in 2002, as used in the Dodge Ram and Durango, 300C, Magnum, and Challenger.

Level of control: Fuel and ignition control. This article does not cover the drive by wire setup, MDS (cylinder deactivation) or the "cam in cam" variable valve timing that appeared in 2009, or the host of systems tied into the stock ECU's network. If you're swapping a motor into an older car, you can just put a cable operated throttle body on there and go. If you're using the MegaSquirt on a factory Hemi car - and not building a gutted race car - we recommend letting the stock ECU run the throttle body and other functions, with the MS taking over just fuel and ignition.
ECU Modifications

We recommend the MS3 for these motors, in order to get sequential fuel control and sequential spark control. Plus, the MS3 has native support for the OEM cam and crank sensors.

Using the MS-III PCB V3.0 or V3.57 ECU

And the MS3X expansion board

* Set up the ECU up to trigger from the VR Input. Jumper TachSelect to VRIN and TSEL to VROUT for a V3.0. For a V3.57, set the JP1 jumper on the main board to the 1-2 position, and set J1 to the 3-4 position.
* We'll need a 5 volt pull up on the crank sensor. There are two ways to do this - internal or external.
o Internal pull up: For a V3.57, solder a 1K resistor in the R57 position. For a V3.0, solder a 1K resistor to a length of wire and run it from the 5 volt point in the proto area to the TachSelect-VRIN jumper.
o External pull up: Connect a 1K resistor between the wire on pins 24 and 26 on the main board harness.
* Use the MS3X pull up jumper for the cam sensor pull up (JP7).
* For starting trim pot settings, we recommend having R56 (main board hysteresis) and R32 (MS3X hysteresis) fully counterclockwise. V3.0 pots will click when they reach the end of their travel; for a V3.57 or the MS3X board, just give them six full turns counterclockwise to move them to the end. Start with R52 (main board threshold) one full turn clockwise after setting it fully counterclockwise for a V3.57, or three turns clockwise for a V3.0. For R11 (MS3X zero crossing), start with one turn clockwise from the fully counterclockwise slot.

That's it!

Ignition output

Since the factory coils do not have built in ignition modules, we recommend using a pair of QuadSpark ignition modules to fire the coils. There are two coil versions used on Hemi motors. If you have the coils with two boots underneath them, set the number of coils to "coil on plug." If you have the coils with one boot underneath them and the other connector connecting to a spark plug wire on the companion cylinder, set the number of coils to "wasted COP." In either case, the wiring is the same.

* Spark A - cylinder 1
* Spark B - cylinder 8
* Spark C - cylinder 4
* Spark D - cylinder 3
* Spark E - cylinder 6
* Spark F - cylinder 5
* Spark G - cylinder 7
* Spark H - cylinder 2

Other Things the ECU Controls

The stock ECU ties into the gauges and many other functions on the cars and trucks that used these motors stock. If you are installing a MegaSquirt on these cars and want these functions to work like stock, see our guide to MegaSquirt parallel installations for some tips on how to keep the stock ECU functional.

If you're swapping a new Hemi into something from the muscle car era, this will not be a major concern. You will want to have the MegaSquirt control the fuel pump relay, and it can also run a tachometer off its tach output pin since you no longer have a distributor to trigger the stock tach. The MegaSquirt tach output works with most aftermarket tachometers. If it does not work with your stock tach, you may need a tach adapter such as the ones used on aftermarket CDI ignitions.

One easy way to get around the drive by wire for engine swaps: BBK has recently come out with bolt on cable operated throttle bodies for these motors.
TunerStudio Configuration for MS3

Set the following under Tach Input / Ignition Settings.

* Spark mode: 36-2+2
* Use cam signal: Yes
* Cam input: MS3X cam in
* Ignition Input Capture: Rising Edge
* Spark Output: Going High / Inverted for DIYAutoTune.com QuadSpark ignition modules. It is critical to get the Spark Output Inverted setting correct, as setting this wrong can result in damage to the ignition module or coil.
* Number of coils: Coil on plug or wasted COP (see above)
* Spark A output pin: MS3X spark

Dwell settings will depend on the coil used; 2.0 msec is a safe starting point. A typical rule of thumb is to back off the dwell until you can just barely detect a misfire under lean cruising conditions, then add 0.2 ms of dwell time.

The trigger angle is hard-coded with this setting and should be left at zero.

Note that if you are using some other sort of ignition module (such as certain distributorless capacitive discharge setups), it is possible the spark output setting may need to be set to Going Low / Normal. Most ignition modules we are aware of that could be used on these motors should use Going High / Inverted, including the QuadSpark, Bosch 211, AEM distributorless ignition module, and M&W Pro 18. If you are using an M&W Pro 18, we recomemnd wiring it directly to the MS and using its falling edge ignition mode.
A warning about spark tables

The new Hemis neither need nor appreciate a lot of timing advance. We've found that 22 degrees at full throttle is all the advance one is likely to need on race gas, and can be too much on pump gas. The default MS3 timing table is for an older combustion chamber with a much lower flame front speed, and needs to be backed off before you start tuning. I'd start with no more than 18 to 20 degrees at full throttle (100 kPa). I've heard Mopar faithful comment "This engine isn't a real Hemi" - and they should not be tuned with the huge amounts of spark advance a classic 426 would have required. The newer head has a much faster burn rate and is considerably more efficient.
Suggested parts

ECU options:

* MegaSquirt-III V3.0 kit with MS3X expansion board
* MegaSquirt-III V3.57 / MS3X assembled unit

Other recommended parts

* Two QuadSpark ignition modules
* JimStim kit or assembled JimStim
* Stimulator power supply
* 12' main board wiring harness
* MS3X wiring harness
* 6' DB9 tuning cable or MS3 USB cable
* Wideband O2 sensor system

There's a number of ways of dealing with the DBW throttle - one of the simplest out now is that BBK is now selling a bolt on cable operated throttle body.

[Black99rt]

Can anyone advise an electrical solution to lock the VVT for the time being so he can get everything else up and running?

[Matt Cramer]

Can anyone advise an electrical solution to lock the VVT for the time being so he can get everything else up and running?

Yeah, don't hook it up.

[Cevidicus]

Can anyone advise an electrical solution to lock the VVT for the time being so he can get everything else up and running?

Yeah, don't hook it up.

LOL

Is it true that this is being tested in beta on a VVT Hemi?

Im not looking ti get this going until later this year. So Ive got time for the details to be worked out.

Thanks for all your help.
C

[Cevidicus]

Any new information or updates on this subject?

Thanks,
C

[Redtruck-VA]

Any updates?

[Noohki]

I found this post while researching info for my new project. I have previously successfully used ms3 with an 03 5.7 hemi but I have replaced that motor with a 09 5.7 hemi.

In one of Matt Cramer's post he wrote:

How to MegaSquirt your new Chrysler Hemi
Using stock sensors and coils
Updated 12/29/2011

Application(s): This article covers the new Mopar Hemi Magnum engines (5.7, 6.1, or 6.4) that Chrysler started producing in 2002, as used in the Dodge Ram and Durango, 300C, Magnum, and Challenger.

I am confused since the 09 5.7 is supposed to have a 58 tooth reluctor wheel and in the same post Matt says to set the Spark Mode: to 36-2+2.

Can anybody clarify this?

[Matt Cramer]

I don't have a clear description of whether the VVT Hemis used the NGC pattern or a 60-2 crank trigger, but using the "Log crank and cam" feature on one of these motors ought to clear that up.

[molak]

Hi

I'm instaling a ms3 on a 5.7 hemi and i dont have the wiring loom. can anyone help me with the pinout for the crankshaft sensor?? the part number is 05149009aa

[Matt Cramer]

Since this thread was bumped - the latest code (1.3.0) now does support VVT Hemis.

[jsmcortina]

I don't have a clear description of whether the VVT Hemis used the NGC pattern or a 60-2 crank trigger, but using the "Log crank and cam" feature on one of these motors ought to clear that up.

We found that this engine does use 60-2, but in typical Chrysler style there is yet another different cam pattern !!

As Matt says, the code supports it.

James

[red-racing]

The code supports VVT, but if I select Hemi VVT in tunerstudio, it seems like all the values are pure random (pid, min/max duty)
where do I find the basic settings for this setup?