Alternator control by ecu

[dochka]

Hi,
What alternator can be directly controlled by the Megasquirt;
I mean I'd like to control the charge and voltage of the alternator from the ecu, and turn it off during startup and full throttle lets say
Anyone tried this ?

Regards

[binlki1]

I am also interested in alt control, I found this post that Matt Cramer at DIY Autotune Posted

Ford "Smart Charge" alternator testing results.
I have a customer who has been working with the ECU controlled alternators on Zetec Focuses. These take a signal referred to as GEN-COM in Ford documentation, which gives a PWM signal that commands the alternator voltage. There is also a signal called GEN-MON that is used to monitor electrical load, but you can run without it. This customer did some testing on these alternators, and gave me permission to post what he found here for the benefit of others. He was using a MicroSquirt's PWM idle output, but i have posted this in the MS3 forum because of the MS3's dedicated alternator control function. I'll start with what he had to say, then see if I can translate this into MS3 output info.

Matt,

We experimented with the Ford Focus alternator on the workbench, using a pulse generator, and were successful in getting it to work. Most of the info we found on the web about this alternator was not exactly accurate.

The alternator must have a PWM signal on the GEN-COM wire (blue wire going to the alternator). Without the PWM signal, the alternator will not charge at all.

The output voltage is not dependent on the frequency, but varies with duty cycle. As we changed the frequency of the PWM signal, the output voltage didn’t really change. My electrical engineer friend said that if we increased the frequency too much, the alternator would quit charging (something about “overlapping” that screws with the duty cycle). He suggested setting the frequency at 90Hz, so that’s what we used for testing.

The output voltage seems to be directly related to the duty cycle. At 30% duty cycle, the output voltage was 13.8V. At 34%, the voltage was 14V, and at 42%, the voltage was 14.5V. So I think the Microsquirt will control this alternator quite well. My plan is to set it up where it will output 14.5V when the engine is cold, and taper down to 13.8V when the engine is warmed up. I may have to tweak these values slightly, but I think it’s a good starting point.

The alternator has a pull-up resister built in, so no additional resistor was needed. The GEN-MON wire (grey wire from the alternator), will not be used, although we did have it connected to an oscilloscope to see the signal from it. It sends out a PWM signal. And the alternator still works with this wire disconnected.

The red wire is the “sense” wire, and was connected to a battery. The alternator would not work without being connected to a battery. It would not self excite, unless we just didn’t spin it fast enough. We spun it with a 2,800 rpm drill, which equates to about 1,000 engine rpm with a harmonic balance that is about 2.5 times larger than the alt pulley. The red wire can be connected directly to the battery, not necessary to have it switched by the ignition.

The PWM signal from the pulse generator would turn on the regulator, so it has to shut down with the ignition to prevent from draining the battery.

Wes.


So, based on Wes's testing, here are the settings I would suggest as a starting point if you encounter a Zetec or other "Smart Charge" Ford alternator. They may need minor tweaking.

Control Mode: Open Loop Duty
Control interval (ms): not particularly important for open loop. You can leave it at the default or turn it up to 100.
Control output can be set to just about any unused mid current output (MS3X), or the MS3-Pro's PWM, high current, or injector outputs. It wires directly to the GEN-CON terminal on the alternator.
Control Frequency: 78 Hz. (May need to be adjusted to 100)
Load Monitor Input: Not clear if this works, but you can probably use the GEN-MON signal for this.

For the alternator control duty, start with these numbers and interpolate between them:

13.8 V - 30%
14.0 V - 34%
14.5 V - 42%

You'll want to confirm these values by trial and error.
Matt Cramer at DIY Autotune - 1966 Dodge Dart slant six running on Megasquirt
Image
Matt Cramer
Super MS/Extra'er

Posts: 10260
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:08 pm


Hope it helps
Kirk

[dochka]

I am also interested in alt control, I found this post that Matt Cramer at DIY Autotune Posted

Ford "Smart Charge" alternator testing results.
I have a customer who has been working with the ECU controlled alternators on Zetec Focuses. These take a signal referred to as GEN-COM in Ford documentation, which gives a PWM signal that commands the alternator voltage. There is also a signal called GEN-MON that is used to monitor electrical load, but you can run without it. This customer did some testing on these alternators, and gave me permission to post what he found here for the benefit of others. He was using a MicroSquirt's PWM idle output, but i have posted this in the MS3 forum because of the MS3's dedicated alternator control function. I'll start with what he had to say, then see if I can translate this into MS3 output info.

Matt,

We experimented with the Ford Focus alternator on the workbench, using a pulse generator, and were successful in getting it to work. Most of the info we found on the web about this alternator was not exactly accurate.

The alternator must have a PWM signal on the GEN-COM wire (blue wire going to the alternator). Without the PWM signal, the alternator will not charge at all.

The output voltage is not dependent on the frequency, but varies with duty cycle. As we changed the frequency of the PWM signal, the output voltage didn’t really change. My electrical engineer friend said that if we increased the frequency too much, the alternator would quit charging (something about “overlapping” that screws with the duty cycle). He suggested setting the frequency at 90Hz, so that’s what we used for testing.

The output voltage seems to be directly related to the duty cycle. At 30% duty cycle, the output voltage was 13.8V. At 34%, the voltage was 14V, and at 42%, the voltage was 14.5V. So I think the Microsquirt will control this alternator quite well. My plan is to set it up where it will output 14.5V when the engine is cold, and taper down to 13.8V when the engine is warmed up. I may have to tweak these values slightly, but I think it’s a good starting point.

The alternator has a pull-up resister built in, so no additional resistor was needed. The GEN-MON wire (grey wire from the alternator), will not be used, although we did have it connected to an oscilloscope to see the signal from it. It sends out a PWM signal. And the alternator still works with this wire disconnected.

The red wire is the “sense” wire, and was connected to a battery. The alternator would not work without being connected to a battery. It would not self excite, unless we just didn’t spin it fast enough. We spun it with a 2,800 rpm drill, which equates to about 1,000 engine rpm with a harmonic balance that is about 2.5 times larger than the alt pulley. The red wire can be connected directly to the battery, not necessary to have it switched by the ignition.

The PWM signal from the pulse generator would turn on the regulator, so it has to shut down with the ignition to prevent from draining the battery.

Wes.


So, based on Wes's testing, here are the settings I would suggest as a starting point if you encounter a Zetec or other "Smart Charge" Ford alternator. They may need minor tweaking.

Control Mode: Open Loop Duty
Control interval (ms): not particularly important for open loop. You can leave it at the default or turn it up to 100.
Control output can be set to just about any unused mid current output (MS3X), or the MS3-Pro's PWM, high current, or injector outputs. It wires directly to the GEN-CON terminal on the alternator.
Control Frequency: 78 Hz. (May need to be adjusted to 100)
Load Monitor Input: Not clear if this works, but you can probably use the GEN-MON signal for this.

For the alternator control duty, start with these numbers and interpolate between them:

13.8 V - 30%
14.0 V - 34%
14.5 V - 42%

You'll want to confirm these values by trial and error.
Matt Cramer at DIY Autotune - 1966 Dodge Dart slant six running on Megasquirt
Image
Matt Cramer
Super MS/Extra'er

Posts: 10260
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:08 pm


Hope it helps
Kirk

Thank you Kirk
Can you please post a picture or a link to that alternator, and what vehicle does it come standard on ?
What is the current rating of those ?

Thank you

[prof315]

There are several alternators that MS can control and different control schemes for each. I would suggest looking at the manuals and balloon tips in the current release firmware.

[nginmu]

Could I ask, what is the amplitude parameter of the PWM control signal used in the above testing.. is it 0/12V or something less maybe 0/5V, is the data low level offset from zero, etc. Thanks.

[kcuf]

i "thought" my zetec blacktop (2003 model 2L) alt was working during testing/tuning/driving etc, but was focusing on other area's of the logs, so i was at a solid 13.4v regardless of what figures i plugged into the duty table, switched to 100hz control frequency, and alt went up into the high 15v range, lower the numbers, higher the volts, so i went higher and things started looking better, untill i ended up with the below, basically 100 on top of the original figures, and its working fine, and doing as i would expect it to, as far as i understand the output polarity needs to be inverted for it to even work at all, maybe i am wrong,

any reason why 78hz would not work?, i know above it was mentioned that you "may" need to increase to 100hz.

these settings work for me at least

[jsmcortina]

Please read the Hardware Manual. You have the wrong control mode.
Ford alternators use frequency control.

James

[kcuf]

so the below (quoted from above) is not good to follow then, i came to it googling the zetec alternator and it looked good, saved the thought of trying to find a dumb alternator, etc

So, based on Wes's testing, here are the settings I would suggest as a starting point if you encounter a Zetec or other "Smart Charge" Ford alternator. They may need minor tweaking.

Control Mode: Open Loop Duty
Control interval (ms): not particularly important for open loop. You can leave it at the default or turn it up to 100.
Control output can be set to just about any unused mid current output (MS3X), or the MS3-Pro's PWM, high current, or injector outputs. It wires directly to the GEN-CON terminal on the alternator.
Control Frequency: 78 Hz. (May need to be adjusted to 100)
Load Monitor Input: Not clear if this works, but you can probably use the GEN-MON signal for this.

For the alternator control duty, start with these numbers and interpolate between them:

13.8 V - 30%
14.0 V - 34%
14.5 V - 42%

on page 51 of the manual i can see what you are talking about, so i'll give it a go, i think i may have pre-wired to use PT4 for a load monitor as well, so i'll check that and see how it goes, thanks

[jsmcortina]

I have personally tested with a 3-wire Euro Ford alternator and the settings in the manual come from that testing.

James

[kcuf]

I have personally tested with a 3-wire Euro Ford alternator and the settings in the manual come from that testing.

James

Thanks James
Settings as per manual and all good now, lucky I was still on the testing phase of the new setup in my mk3 cortina,
Cheers
Dan

Sent from my LG-H870 using Tapatalk

[5.0Thunder]

Has anybody used alternator control on a 3G or 6G ford alternators? I'm kind of wondering if we're able to boost low RPM voltage when we aren't able to spin it fast enough at idle for full charge voltage.

[jsmcortina]

I don't think it is possible to make the alternator put out more current at idle. This is an electro-mechanical limitation of the generator.

James

[banzairx7]

I am messing around with a 2010 Ford Escape alternator and those settings seem to be a bit different. Figured I'd post them up as they might be helpful to some one.

Frequency= 125hz (this was per the factory service manual)

40% duty cycle 13.6v
65% duty cycle 14.3v